T Point Requirement for CT

While I do think that if this was implemented we could see an influx of better CTs, there are a lot of possible downsides to something like this, as stated by others. Some people play for fun and not to grind T points, while others do the opposite. New players may have a harder time getting kills because they don't know all of the secrets and nuances of the maps, and may be scared to rebel, as Auto said.

If I remember correctly, you need 30 total minutes of total playtime to be able to join CT. I think this is a good spot that we're in right now. Most players will be playing for those 30 minutes and can get a grasp of the rules and gameplay style. The only thing I can see happening, maybe, would be a time increase to say, 45 minutes or 60 monutes of total playtime on the server before being able to join CT.

Kuri does bring up a very valid point about how T points equates to knowing the rules. But thing is, people don't always play JB to only get kills. A lot of them play for fun rather then just finding the nearest gun and beaming the CTs. And you can take these averages, but it's all about the player. I can understand how it might take a T 3+ maps to actually get 25 points. I think it also takes away from the role playing of the game mode and encourages killing and rebelling 24/7.

If you're not very good at the game (don't know secrets, poor aim), the time requirement for 5 tpoints is about 100 minutes total, which is extremely reasonable if you simply don't know any of the rules. As Vanya said, a regular CT ban time for mass freekill is 2 hours, or 120 minutes. Secondly, if you're playing for fun, and don't really care about the gamemode, then play T for 2 hours. If you want to play CT, and know all the rules, then play for kills for 20 minutes, and then you can chill on CT. Thirdly, we lost that "role play" side of Jailbreak years ago. You wanna play seriously? Go play Tango. The JB ATs have made it clear months ago:

The managers have made it abundantly clear that they enjoy the DM gamemode and it's not going anywhere.

The deathmatch style is the way we're going to keep heading.

One thing to keep in mind for new players is that it is sometimes hard the get points because, A: They die to a ct not knowing how to follow orders correctly. B: Sometimes too scared to use a gun and rebel, or C: Not being able to get kills because of the other ts who rebel more killing all the cts before they get a change to a kill of their own. This also dosn't take in fact the players own skill. For bad players they most of the time lose to a ct who far better then them aim wise.

Again, if you're a bad T, why should you play CT? Do we want players that can't follow CT given orders? 5 t points, no matter however long it takes, is extremely reasonable from the worst player to an incredible rebeller.

I played JB today for about 3 hours at non-peak times (basically from 4-7), and every freekiller who claimed they knew the rules? Under 5 t points. Admins had to warn them repeatedly to stop breaking rules, which could all be cleaned up with a requirement.

I think Auto puts it perfectly a lot of the factors that account for them getting 15 points they should just leave it to time. Once they fix it 30 mins of them playing should be enough but the !showrules thing should also be added for admins so that they can force them to read the rules.

30 minutes of playing does not mean that you know the rules. Having t points shows that you have either good aim or good knowledge on the rules, maps and secrets. If you get domed round after round for not following orders, then why should you be able to pick up a primary and enforce orders? Additionally, !forcerules was rejected because players could, you know, not read the thing on their screen.

The number is 5, people. 25 t points is a large number, and bad Ts will take a very long time to get there, but you can get 5 in a round if you're lucky or good enough.

But how are you going to put someones skill to decide if they get to play CT or not? Some players can barely aim at the body and yet alone killing 25 people when they have not a lot of knowledge of secrets or are afraid to generally pick up a gun. So, what you're proposing is that specific people can proceed to CT side almost instantly because they have a better skill level than others? That will make people leave faster than they will want to stay if they cant reach that specific skill gap to get 25 points. Here ill give you a example lets have a brand new person to CSGO wanting to have fun on a community server so they want to play JB they get the point and the rules of it in 30 mins or so of playing it but since they're brand new to CSGO they wouldn't have the chance to play CT like other people do?

So, what you're proposing is that specific people can proceed to CT side almost instantly because they have a better skill level than others?

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I'm not sure how this is a bad thing either, skill level is how jb currently runs. If you're insane and get 5 kills in the first round of JB (already an outlier), they still have to wait through 20 minutes of alive time to get onto CT. If JB is your first foray into CS:GO servers, it should be difficult, there's a lot of things to learn.

That will make people leave faster than they will want to stay if they cant reach that specific skill gap to get 25 points.

Where is 25 coming from? I never stated it in my original post and my post rebutting what you said literally says that 25 is a large number. 5 is a number that is easily low enough for new players to spend time on and experienced players to glide through.

Sure, it's definitely important to have time on T under your belt, but if you're inexperienced enough to not be able to kill 5 CTs within a reasonable amount of time, it's simple: stay off CT.

If you're not very good at the game (don't know secrets, poor aim), the time requirement for 5 tpoints is about 100 minutes total, which is extremely reasonable if you simply don't know any of the rules. As Vanya said, a regular CT ban time for mass freekill is 2 hours, or 120 minutes. Secondly, if you're playing for fun, and don't really care about the gamemode, then play T for 2 hours. If you want to play CT, and know all the rules, then play for kills for 20 minutes, and then you can chill on CT.

These new players aren't rule-breakers or people intentionally breaking rules, they haven't even gotten a chance to go to CT side yet. Increasing the CT-Timer has been rejected

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Again, if you're a bad T, why should you play CT? Do we want players that can't follow CT given orders? 5 t points, no matter however long it takes, is extremely reasonable from the worst player to an incredible rebeller.

There are plenty of notable and good Guards that just suck on T side, you can be a good Guard without being the best/good rebeller.

30 minutes of playing does not mean that you know the rules. Having t points shows that you have either good aim or good knowledge on the rules, maps and secrets. If you get domed round after round for not following orders, then why should you be able to pick up a primary and enforce orders? Additionally, !forcerules was rejected because players could, you know, not read the thing on their screen.

We're not expecting the new players to instantly be taking !fo and leading the round, they learn from the other guards and copy their actions. Experience does make a Guard better, and sure they can learn stuff while playing T side but dying over and over

Some players can barely aim at the body and yet alone killing 25 people when they have not a lot of knowledge of secrets or are afraid to generally pick up a gun. So, what you're proposing is that specific people can proceed to CT side almost instantly because they have a better skill level than others? That will make people leave faster than they will want to stay if they cant reach that specific skill gap to get 25 points. Here ill give you a example lets have a brand new person to CSGO wanting to have fun on a community server so they want to play JB they get the point and the rules of it in 30 mins or so of playing it but since they're brand new to CSGO they wouldn't have the chance to play CT like other people do?

I agree, and have definitely been switching my opinion on this topic, but Remixed is suggesting 5 points, not 25.

The number is 5, people. 25 t points is a large number, and bad Ts will take a very long time to get there, but you can get 5 in a round if you're lucky or good enough.

I misunderstood I thought you were proposing 25 points to be the bare minimum my bad.

These new players aren't rule-breakers or people intentionally breaking rules, they haven't even gotten a chance to go to CT side yet. Increasing the CT-Timer has been rejected

I don't really understand what you mean. I'm not saying that every new player will instantly start breaking rules, in fact, many new players want to learn the rules. The requirement is not to prevent every new player from playing CT, but to keep out players who simply don't know the rules or the style of the server. A T who wants to freekill still waits 20 minutes to get onto CT, no matter how epic of a rebeller you are.

There are plenty of notable and good Guards that just suck on T side, you can be a good Guard without being the best/good rebeller.

I perhaps misworded what I said, but even then, it's 5 kills preventing you from joining CT. Even bad Ts who excel at CT side can still get 5 points to switch.

We're not expecting the new players to instantly be taking !fo and leading the round, they learn from the other guards and copy their actions. Experience does make a Guard better, and sure they can learn stuff while playing T side but dying over and over

Players who have hundreds of hours on CT still don't lead the round and know the rules to a tee, and there's nothing wrong with that. You definitely CAN learn something from dying over and over, but you definitely don't learn as well firsthand. Perhaps having dead Ts watch good CTs enforce might allow them to learn faster, but much easier to put a number on something, like the T points.

Players who have hundreds of hours on CT still don't lead the round and know the rules to a tee, and there's nothing wrong with that. You definitely CAN learn something from dying over and over, but you definitely don't learn as well firsthand. Perhaps having dead Ts watch good CTs enforce might allow them to learn faster, but much easier to put a number on something, like the T points.

Right, but the whole point is if I die every round because a player with a mic gives a precise special order in chat, I won't be having fun or want to "learn" much; I'd get frustrated and probably leave the server. Why do I say this? It's because I've seen players get frustrated, killed, and eventually quit because they died for the dumbest reasons. "He was crouched" "He wasn't facing it directly" "He got gunplanted by his teammate" - All fully legal things to kill someone for, but end up making newer players frustrated. Many global, neurological, and educational studies link having fun or positive reinforcement to a more enjoyable experience and learning more.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/4141/the-neuroscience-joyful-education-judy-willis-md.pdf

https://www.apa.org/monitor/jun06/learning

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/advan.00075.2009

^Yes this is super fucking gay and mostly related to education/college-highschool classes, but you get the point

Right, but the whole point is if I die every round because a player with a mic gives a precise special order in chat, I won't be having fun or want to "learn" much; I'd get frustrated and probably leave the server. Why do I say this? It's because I've seen players get frustrated, killed, and eventually quit because they died for the dumbest reasons. "He was crouched" "He wasn't facing it directly" "He got gunplanted by his teammate" - All fully legal things to kill someone for, but end up making newer players frustrated. Many global, neurological, and educational studies link having fun or positive reinforcement to a more enjoyable experience and learning more.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/4141/the-neuroscience-joyful-education-judy-willis-md.pdf

https://www.apa.org/monitor/jun06/learning

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/advan.00075.2009[/color]

I 100% agree with this, but now we're just talking about how to make JB more fun, new players will still get domed for bad orders whether or not there is a t point restriction. If you're riding out 20 minutes over 5 t points because you're bored, then that is tough shit. Sure, if CTs give garbage can orders every round and don't let Ts rebel at all, that would turn players away regardless of how they will join CT.

I really like this idea because even with a really small requirement of 5 points its enough for a person to understand the concept of the game.

Even if they refuse to read !rules and just do what others do, they have to get those points by rebelling (learning secrets to get weapons or knifing CTs when possible) or completing LRs (which would mean they survived a whole round of orders at least once to even get to this point) and learn the concept of the game in the process enough to understand what is expected of a CT more or less. At that point, if they break rules it's up to the community to let them know they're doing something wrong and the admins to punish them if they continue to break rules.

edit: Even I, who doesn't rebel, gets an average of 5 points per hour which is a good amount of time to learn the game enough to be a CT for the first time if I were a new player