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  1. #21
    Matty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyymunk View Post
    It's the same word? I don't understand how you can logically draw that conclusion? Both have the same underlying meaning do they not, regardless of how society uses the words...

    As far as determine between nigga and nigger, it's pointless and absolutely unnecessary. I as well as probably a ton of admins don't want to have to deal with determining the difference of a single fucking vowel. That right there is a waste of time.
    I hope for your own sake you're trolling. The hard R has been used for the sole purpose of degradation and insult, and while nigga may come from the same root, it's something that has transformed into something of a source of strength and community for black Americans. You can see the same thing happening to stuff like queer and fag for the gay community. You shouldn't take things purely at face value.

    As for the "single fucking vowel", it's not forensic analysis lmao. You're making it out to be way more of a hassle than it would be

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  3. #22
    Trazz
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    The concept of "racism is allowed" is entirely false. If used excessively or to harass another player they can still be punished. If gone down the route and remove the word nigger it would cause for a removal to other words ultimately bringing us back to how it was a few months to go or back to here.

    This was recently discussed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matty View Post
    And that's why I made this whole thread. I know it's not allowed, but regulars abuse it, and admins don't care, so like I said it may as well be at this point.
    That is also why we have player complaints section.

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  5. #23
    Matty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trazz View Post
    The concept of "racism is allowed" is entirely false. If used excessively or to harass another player they can still be punished. If gone down the route and remove the word nigger it would cause for a removal to other words ultimately bringing us back to how it was a few months to go or back to here.

    This was recently discussed here.
    And that's why I made this whole thread. I know it's not allowed, but regulars abuse it, and admins don't care, so like I said it may as well be at this point.


    I mean I could flood player and admin complaints with it, but it's systematic at this point, hence the problem.

  6. #24
    Andrew
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    Would have to agree with Matty here. I see this type of stuff happening WAY to often and regardless of an admin being on or not, nothing is done about it. As stated many times before, the line which declares a statement is blurred and also up to whoever is dealing with it. I also just want to point out that it doesn't seem like anything is being done about it. Even if you look at the recent bans, 0% of them are for being racist. Honestly, I don't think I've seen someone get banned for being racist since the rule was revoked. As much as I would like to see this type of thing removed, thats just not going to happen. However, I do think that the "line" needs to be defined as a set rule and based off admin discretion. Personally, I would just not allow the use of "nigger" at all. There really aren't many situations where it is used as casual talk.

  7. #25
    Gentoo
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    Completely anecdotal, but out of the tens of players that have come to me about being bullied or harassed, not one of them has complained about being called a racial slur. People come to me about being made fun of for their age, voice, skill level, etc. but never for being called a racial slur. This could be entirely coincidental, but I don't think that is the case. As the internet is (mostly) anonymous, people won't hesitate to say mean things, but on the same coin, most people over the age of 10 are able to brush off these mean things as shit talk from someone who knows nothing about them. The only criticisms of this rule seem to have come from white knights speaking on behalf of other people, or who simply don't want to hear someone else called something "mean". I don't intend to say that this behavior is okay, but I don't think that people care about it all that much.

    A while back, @idealist said at a community meeting "The racism rule keeps black people off our servers". I'm sure this was interpreted by most as a joke, and he likely meant it that way to a certain degree, but I find it to be proven true since the rule's reversion. Our playerbase, on TTT at least, seems to be more diverse (in a broad sense, not racially), AND there appears to be more regulars that are minorities or claim to be so. This is a somewhat touchy thing to talk bluntly about, but I really don't think we should alienate a portion of our playerbase from speaking comfortably because some edgy hicks want to abuse (actually break) a rule that was changed with good intentions.

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  9. #26
    Matty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
    Completely anecdotal, but out of the tens of players that have come to me about being bullied or harassed, not one of them has complained about being called a racial slur. People come to me about being made fun of for their age, voice, skill level, etc. but never for being called a racial slur. This could be entirely coincidental, but I don't think that is the case. As the internet is (mostly) anonymous, people won't hesitate to say mean things, but on the same coin, most people over the age of 10 are able to brush off these mean things as shit talk from someone who knows nothing about them. The only criticisms of this rule seem to have come from white knights speaking on behalf of other people, or who simply don't want to hear someone else called something "mean". I don't intend to say that this behavior is okay, but I don't think that people care about it all that much.

    A while back, @idealist said at a community meeting "The racism rule keeps black people off our servers". I'm sure this was interpreted by most as a joke, and he likely meant it that way to a certain degree, but I find it to be proven true since the rule's reversion. Our playerbase, on TTT at least, seems to be more diverse (in a broad sense, not racially), AND there appears to be more regulars that are minorities or claim to be so. This is a somewhat touchy thing to talk bluntly about, but I really don't think we should alienate a portion of our playerbase from speaking comfortably because some edgy hicks want to abuse (actually break) a rule that was changed with good intentions.
    Ah yes, I forgot about the portion of black steam-gamers who joined solely because they can freely say the hard R now.

  10. #27
    Gentoo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty View Post
    Ah yes, I forgot about the portion of black steam-gamers who joined solely because they can freely say the hard R now.
    I'm not sure if you're out of touch or just willfully ignorant; believe it or not, people ARE more likely to stick around when they aren't being muted and yelled at for speaking normally. I'm not sure how active you were directly prior to the rule change, but the difference is night and day.

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  12. #28
    Matty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
    I'm not sure if you're out of touch or just willfully ignorant; believe it or not, people ARE more likely to stick around when they aren't being muted and yelled at for speaking normally. I'm not sure how active you were directly prior to the rule change, but the difference is night and day.
    And again, I will restate for the probably 5th time this thread, that this is about the HARD R, not the casual use of nigga.

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  14. #29
    idealist
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    Rules already cover this. If you see a blatant example of an admin ignoring someone who is taking advantage of 'admin discretion' please record a player complaint and pm one of the IA's or BD's about the admin.

    As far as your proposal to completely ban the hard r I would personally be against. I believe in freedom of speech and everything that comes with that (yes even the nasty bits.) That doesn't mean people are free from the consequences of using certain words though. I'd rather give every player here the freedom to make themselves look ignorant so I don't have to waste as much time figuring out who the bad apples are.

    I appreciate the suggestion but I think the way we have the rules set up now should already be covering cases where it's targeted or excessive.

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