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  1. #11
    Poke
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonzi View Post
    Can a Detective force two people to fight each other at the end?
    If neither of them fight and 1 is a T and 1 is an INNO and you kill both wouldn't that be technically rdm?
    Quote Originally Posted by roux View Post
    IN ITSELF, ORDERS DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO ORDER INNOCENTS TO SLAUGHTER ONE ANOTHER, TO COMMIT SUICIDE, DO NOT APPLY TO DETECTIVES.
    ^

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  3. #12
    roux

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fonzi View Post
    Can a Detective force two people to fight each other at the end?
    If neither of them fight and 1 is a T and 1 is an INNO and you kill both wouldn't that be technically rdm?
    In this hypothetical scenario where 3 players remain, one of each class, then in any circumstances, whoever is innocent knows who to kill.

  4. #13
    eden
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    I've never been against change as it usually promotes growth in the server however, there are some things I want to touch on.

    Can I kill Traitors off association?
    No, you may not kill someone off of association with another Traitor.

    What made SG stand out from the rest of the other TTT servers was that you could actually use logic and not be punished. If were going by this logic we might as well take away killing players off of sound/location. It seems to me certain people got turned off by situations where people got rdmed off of association. Instances like these happen all the time, deal with the rule breaker and move on, why overhaul everything?

    You can now no longer kill someone for not shooting at a T, not being shot at by a T, and various other clearly logical reasons to kill someone
    Then make t baiting bannable as well. It makes no sense to have these sets of rules and allow people to just go around t baiting for fun.

    I think whats in order is to set new rules on what "Association" entails. It seems fucking stupid that all you need to say is it was association and your scott free of any punishment. It would be super infuriating for a new player to get killed off and the players response to killing you was just a simple "association". Im sure we as a community could think of ideas where this rule could work for both ends of the stick.

    You may kill someone for not responding to a live check after the 2:00 minute mark.
    I think this is a great addition to the rules, we've been having issues where innos have been delaying and I think this might be the happy medium we need to promote players to actually not camp as much. Inno's had minimal information to work off of and needed some kind of leeway in my opinion to combat certain situations.

    Detectives are allowed to give orders that help them rapidly determine if someone is a Traitor. If you do not follow their order after 3 warnings, they may kill you.
    This needs to be worded differently. There are really only 2 different situations where a detective should be allowed to kill someone for not obeying their orders.
    1st Refusing to be tazed after being warned 3 warnings
    2nd Refusing to get in a tester to be tested after 3 warnings
    Maybe something along the lines of "Detectives can only kill a player if they refuse to be tazed or tested after 3 warnings are omitted". These wordings are way too broad and need to have certain limitations to them.

    Yes, you can KOS someone for having an AWP or Health shot.
    This rule in my opinion just promotes a less dynamic game play of what TTT should be. If anything I feel like this just ruins the gameplay for innos/detectives. If a traitor buys an awp and I kill him as an inno why should I be fucking punished for picking up what rightfully should be mine? I domed his ass as an inno I should be able to fucking use the gun he tried to kill me with. If anything this is just gonna lead to people abusing this new rule. You dont like someone...? easy throw an awp at him and kill his ass for picking it up. Another issue, if a traitor kills a few people and throws the awp to hide it, now as an inno I can't even fucking pick it up to see the name on it without being fucking blasted. Come on now....lets really use our brain here, does this sound fucking logical or fair!?

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  6. #14
    Trazz
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    Quote Originally Posted by roux View Post
    IN ITSELF, ORDERS DO NOT ALLOW YOU TO ORDER INNOCENTS TO SLAUGHTER ONE ANOTHER, TO COMMIT SUICIDE, DO NOT APPLY TO DETECTIVES.
    Then have this added to the FAQ/RULES because even though as it may seem the logical thing where you should not be doing this, the current rule statement does not rule it out. It says to help find traitors quickly and a player committing seppuku allowing the detective to ID them and narrow it even further down. I gave my statement as an example because this new rule has already been abused and complained about by many players and admins.

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  8. #15
    kennyy
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    I am mostly fine with everything here the detective orders, live check nice additions, but I don’t understand why remove killing off associations it made ttt at least a but more smart. If you choose to go with group of ts you couldn’t get away if your t buddies died it added a bit more of a risk factor. As some people pointed out it also made sg different from other servers you could actually use logic to kill people with I think associations should come back.

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  10. #16
    Caution
    Because I was Inverted
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    I’m locking this thread for right now, because boy oh boy does there seem to be a ‘BD’s made the changes!’ stigma going around (including having people go to my VP). Give me a little bit, because I plan on distributing a healthy dose of reality and informing what actually happened at this TTT meeting.

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  12. #17
    Caution
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    So I’m sitting here typing this at work, delaying my start time / utilizing my breaks for this because of the ridiculousness that ensued following these rule changes. But a few things need to be addressed. First and foremost, we can sit and argue about these rule changes day and night, but I don’t plan on doing that (not right now, anyways). That’s not the purpose of this post; the purpose is to straighten a few things out regarding the TTT meeting.

    BD’s do not, in 99.99% of situations, say ‘this rule is being changed to this’. Ultimately, managers basically have full reign over the server, limiting some things like credit distribution or giving out sub perks and whatnot. It is extremely rare for BD’s to step into server management. We don’t like doing it, and I actually sat down with the BD’s and told them to slowly withdraw themselves from server management, because it’s not typically how things are done. Exceptions are made with people like Paul and MG - basically if you have a retarded amount of experience in that game mode and develop plugins or maps for it and whatnot. I managed PB for roughly 5 years, and slowly withdrew from it after picking up BD and we had able and competent staffing to step in. Basically: we don’t get involved with the ins and outs of server management unless it’s obviously advantageous to the community as a whole for us to do it. Which typically, is not the case.

    Dominic had brought up several things to Montag, which triggered the start of the meeting, and both other AT’s were briefed about a week in advance on the main topics to be discussed (I believe association and the awp thing were the two main ones). I agreed (and still do) think killing someone by association is dumb, and that it is basically a 50/50 between someone wanting nothing to do with a gunfight, but also recognizing that it is sometimes the ability to tell who is a T. I just don’t personally think it’s clear cut proof of it, and I’d rather not have it be a thing.

    I have no problem coming out and saying what I supported, what Frank supported, or what Henry supported. But, once again, I’m not trying to defend any of that. That’s all a complete separate topic. What is complete garbage is the narrative being pushed that the BD’s strong armed any decisions made about these changes.

    Dominic, myself, and quite a few others at this meeting had a discussion from two mindsets: our ability to play the game as a regular player, and our ability to administrate the server (looking through the eyes of the lowest admin rank: ‘A’). Ultimately, at the time, there were three TTT managers: meaning three people who have the say on what rules get changed, voting among themselves if it comes down to it.

    At this meeting, there was healthy discussion about each and every rule change brought up. Opposing views were brought up, discussed, and ultimately every single person who attended that meeting and actively participated said what they had to say, and then agreed to the change to each and every rule, at least as a trial run, because most of them were a middle ground anyways. There were some who said ‘I don’t agree with xyz, but I understand the opposing logic and am fine with a change for the time being until we develop something better.’

    Quote from Montag:
    Who’s spreading that the BDs made the changes? ...just not sure how it could be interpreted as that considering we asked multiple times after each topic if anyone had objections
    Each. And. Every. Topic. All of them were ended with asking if there were objections. I’ve read that basically because Dominic and I were present, Montag was going to get his way. Montag disagreed with us on a fair amount of viewpoints, and came up with a list of healthy alternates to implement as a trial. Hell - we didn’t even take a vote on changes, because that’s not what a server discussion is. Voting happens among managers - and, if an agreement still cannot be reached (which with three people, it typically can) then we may be consulted to get further into the nitty gritty, but that is not what happened.

    What happened was people going with the flow, not arguing, and then turning around later and being mad about changes and blaming BD’s as if we said ‘these rule changes are GOING to happen whether you like it or not’. I’m sorry, but if you cannot argue on behalf of your server and your player-base, regardless of who it is against, then you should not be a manager. Period. Additionally, playing the mommy-daddy game is not something I tolerate. If you have an issue on something, then speak the fuck up then and there, and argue until your face turns blue. That’s not saying to argue just for the sake of arguing, but do not agree in a meeting and then turn around and tell your playerbase that you fought against all the changes. No, you did not.

    To the players in general on rule changes as a whole: this is how servers get better. Even if rule changes are done and they’re complete fucking garbage, managers can now narrow down what works and what does not work. There’s also nothing wrong with coming on the forums and doing what you’re doing - in fact, the people offering alternatives are going above and beyond, and possibly assisting server managers in identifying fixes, loopholes, wording, etc.

    I have no idea what is going on with management among TTT, but it is now at the BD level where we need to sit down and evaluate the staffing that we have going on and figure out the best course of action. Everyone do us a favor and standby: we have heard your complaints and have a better picture of the situation, and will sit down and figure out what route to go at this point.

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  14. #18
    Zayne
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    We heard your complaints and have changed things accordingly. Thank you all for the suggestions and staying patient with us as we figured this all out.

    Changelog here - https://www.steam-gamers.net/forum/s...38#post1015938

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