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  1. #41
    MAGA
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    Don't hit a break wall, everyone. Abortion is debatably the most argued issue in this wonderful country. We have to set our opinions aside in order to save lives. At eight weeks of age just before the Fetal Stage(Nine weeks) of the child, the child's heart begins to beat. In 2015 the CDC conducted a report that 12 women out of 1000 had received an abortion in 2015. I am an older gentleman and I can reassure everyone that abortion affects us just as they would a woman in many ways. It takes two in order to create a child. Now onto the controversy, we are dealing with. Some women would prefer that they would rather have their own choice and no government interference with their body, this includes but is not limited to abortions, intentional miscarriages, and infanticide. Some other women prefer all children to live with no ability to choose the fate of their baby an independent organism with no ability to tell her what to do. The final group of women believes in pro-life, but want exceptions such as in cases of non-consensual sexual intercourse, incestual relationships (some caused by rape) and/or victims of a crime. We all should take into consideration what a legal abortion consists of. Of course, I don't want to make those feel uneasy in this discussion, but I will go over the effects of what a legal abortion consists of. Depending on what week the child is in they have a choice of taking a pill usually which causes the child's organs to fail and causing its immediate removal, while some are done more extremely. The only thing positive about this is that women are safe usually either under heavy drugs or anesthetics. Following close to that, these legal facilities practice safe abortion methods that are usually costly but ensure the safety of the woman getting the abortion with proper sanitation and medical procedure. Illegal abortion is another story. Many women and their children have both passed away on several different occasions by going to an underground/unlicensed OBGYN to do the procedure. Many of them used disgusting methods in order to remove the baby at no concern for the mother whatsoever. Some children have even come out with massive deformities, not surviving months, weeks, days and sometimes, unfortunately, hours and minutes. Over 92 % of abortions are done for reasons of unintended pregnancy. So bringing together the statistic from the CDC in 2015 with 12 out of thousand children being aborted in the US. We can piece together that if abortion was banned that number would drop to 1 in every thousand WHICH WILL SAVE LIVES! But if we ban abortion, more women will succumb to methods of illegal abortion leading to more arrests and more children (Including mothers) dying horribly due to malpractice. How can we as a community choose between two evils? We can't. The brick wall of abortion is thicker than people think. I feel as if the CDC needs to configure another data analysis on lives saved and lives taken from both methods and choose from there. Healthy children die every day at the hands of someone who they think will feed them and nurture their upbringing. The first people you see in your life, imagine them taking you away because you were a liability. It is a hard thing to imagine for us blessed with wonderful and caring parents. Child Protective Services(CPS) have no problem taking newborn children because they have a higher rate of being adopted to those who aren't fortunate enough to bear a child. So why do people abort? We have so many other alternatives with our welfare system and tax credits were raising a child should not be a difficult thing. I know a woman who is living by herself on a twelve dollar an hour paycheck with three other children! If she can do it, I don't see why anyone else would object. Her financial status is not great, but in the US, if you have children the government makes it really hard for you and your children to suffer. If you read this, Thank you.- MAGA

  2. #42
    TheZZL
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    I agreed with most of what you said, until you came to this part:
    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    It is a hard thing to imagine for us blessed with wonderful and caring parents. Child Protective Services(CPS) have no problem taking newborn children because they have a higher rate of being adapted to those who aren't fortunate enough to bear a child. So why do people abort? We have so many other alternatives with our welfare system and tax credits were raising a child should not be a difficult thing. I know a woman who is living by herself on a twelve dollar an hour paycheck with three other children! If she can do it, I don't see why anyone else would object. Her financial status is not great, but in the US, if you have children the government makes it really hard for you and your children to suffer. If you read this, Thank you.- MAGA

    How could you ask why a woman chooses to abort when there are people willing to adpot a child, when there is a mental and physical strain on a woman to go through the process of pregnancy. Raising a child is a difficult process, just because your friend has found slight success in their poor financial situation doesn't mean everyone will.

  3. #43
    BoM
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    Child Protective Services(CPS) have no problem taking newborn children because they have a higher rate of being adapted to those who aren't fortunate enough to bear a child. So why do people abort? We have so many other alternatives with our welfare system and tax credits were raising a child should not be a difficult thing. I know a woman who is living by herself on a twelve dollar an hour paycheck with three other children! If she can do it, I don't see why anyone else would object. Her financial status is not great, but in the US, if you have children the government makes it really hard for you and your children to suffer. If you read this, Thank you.- MAGA
    You talk about about abortion affecting women and men the same, yet here you're completely discounting the struggles of raising a child alone. Don't take your one fucking scenario and some vague statistics to justify your opinion please. Fact - having a baby is one of the most mentally and physically draining and potentially debilitating things a woman can go through. Fact - raising a child is also hard and expensive as shit, both for the parents and the government. I don't know what this 'woman living by herself with three children and surviving on a $12 an hour paycheck' is, she working 4 jobs or something? is this 1980? You've clearly seen one side of the coin, but don't come in here saying 'we have to set aside our opinions' only to literally use personal experience and your opinion to justify your bullshit reasoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    the government makes it really hard for you and your children to suffer
    please leave

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  5. #44
    delirium
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    Don't hit a break wall, everyone. Abortion is debatably the most argued issue in this wonderful country. We have to set our opinions aside in order to save lives. At eight weeks of age just before the Fetal Stage(Nine weeks) of the child, the child's heart begins to beat. In 2015 the CDC conducted a report that 12 women out of 1000 had received an abortion in 2015. I am an older gentleman and I can reassure everyone that abortion affects us just as they would a woman in many ways. It takes two in order to create a child. Now onto the controversy, we are dealing with. Some women would prefer that they would rather have their own choice and no government interference with their body, this includes but is not limited to abortions, intentional miscarriages, and infanticide. Some other women prefer all children to live with no ability to choose the fate of their baby an independent organism with no ability to tell her what to do. The final group of women believes in pro-life, but want exceptions such as in cases of non-consensual sexual intercourse, incestual relationships (some caused by rape) and/or victims of a crime. We all should take into consideration what a legal abortion consists of. Of course, I don't want to make those feel uneasy in this discussion, but I will go over the effects of what a legal abortion consists of. Depending on what week the child is in they have a choice of taking a pill usually which causes the child's organs to fail and causing its immediate removal, while some are done more extremely. The only thing positive about this is that women are safe usually either under heavy drugs or anesthetics. Following close to that, these legal facilities practice safe abortion methods that are usually costly but ensure the safety of the woman getting the abortion with proper sanitation and medical procedure. Illegal abortion is another story. Many women and their children have both passed away on several different occasions by going to an underground/unlicensed OBGYN to do the procedure. Many of them used disgusting methods in order to remove the baby at no concern for the mother whatsoever. Some children have even come out with massive deformities, not surviving months, weeks, days and sometimes, unfortunately, hours and minutes. Over 92 % of abortions are done for reasons of unintended pregnancy. So bringing together the statistic from the CDC in 2015 with 12 out of thousand children being aborted in the US. We can piece together that if abortion was banned that number would drop to 1 in every thousand WHICH WILL SAVE LIVES! But if we ban abortion, more women will succumb to methods of illegal abortion leading to more arrests and more children (Including mothers) dying horribly due to malpractice. How can we as a community choose between two evils? We can't. The brick wall of abortion is thicker than people think. I feel as if the CDC needs to configure another data analysis on lives saved and lives taken from both methods and choose from there. Healthy children die every day at the hands of someone who they think will feed them and nurture their upbringing. The first people you see in your life, imagine them taking you away because you were a liability. It is a hard thing to imagine for us blessed with wonderful and caring parents. Child Protective Services(CPS) have no problem taking newborn children because they have a higher rate of being adapted to those who aren't fortunate enough to bear a child. So why do people abort? We have so many other alternatives with our welfare system and tax credits were raising a child should not be a difficult thing. I know a woman who is living by herself on a twelve dollar an hour paycheck with three other children! If she can do it, I don't see why anyone else would object. Her financial status is not great, but in the US, if you have children the government makes it really hard for you and your children to suffer. If you read this, Thank you.- MAGA
    Still not your, or the governments, place to decide. Not really sure what's so hard to understand about this. What personal investment do you have in what another person decides to do with their body if it has absolutely zero impact on your life?

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  7. #45
    soccerswarm/fitctiz
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    i know no nothing about politics but i feel hes getting stuff done but not a good person if you look at what other presidents did they say stuff but dont get it done he gets it done

  8. #46
    Kieran
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    What personal investment do you have in what another person decides to do with their body if it has absolutely zero impact on your life?
    I know I already said I'm not actively looking for abortion to be banned, but just because it doesn't have impact on someone's life doesn't mean they can't be against it. People have morals and people see things as wrong. Something that seems completely normal to one person may be disgusting to another.

    Look at the death penalty for example. Ironically, the liberal side (pro-abortion) typically opposes the death penalty. Why? Isn't it someone else just being killed. Why does it matter to you since you're not on death row? Because they think it is wrong to kill people, especially since there are alternatives avaliable. Eerily similar justifications that pro-lifers use.

    Since death penalty is less of a choice and more of a punishment, how about doctor-assisted suicide? Why do most states have this outlawed? It is the person's choice to do whatever they want with their own body, and it has zero impact on others. Because, once again, people see it as morally and ethically wrong.

    Call it a stretch all you want, those examples very well may be, but I don't think it is fair to invalidate someone's argument because it doesn't impact them. People defend/argue for laws/policies on both sides all the time that have zero impact on their lives because of moral ground.

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  10. #47
    delirium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    I know I already said I'm not actively looking for abortion to be banned, but just because it doesn't have impact on someone's life doesn't mean they can't be against it. People have morals and people see things as wrong. Something that seems completely normal to one person may be disgusting to another.

    Look at the death penalty for example. Ironically, the liberal side (pro-abortion) typically opposes the death penalty. Why? Isn't it someone else just being killed. Why does it matter to you since you're not on death row? Because they think it is wrong to kill people, especially since there are alternatives avaliable. Eerily similar justifications that pro-lifers use.

    Since death penalty is less of a choice and more of a punishment, how about doctor-assisted suicide? Why do most states have this outlawed? It is the person's choice to do whatever they want with their own body, and it has zero impact on others. Because, once again, people see it as morally and ethically wrong.

    Call it a stretch all you want, those examples very well may be, but I don't think it is fair to invalidate someone's argument because it doesn't impact them. People defend/argue for laws/policies on both sides all the time that have zero impact on their lives because of moral ground.
    This argument would make more sense if you knew I was against both of those things however I am not. I think it's pretty fair to say "hey let the people that these things are going to affect make the choice when the time comes" instead of spending all my time arguing with people with SuPeRiOr MoRaLs.

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  12. #48
    Kieran
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    Wasn't really trying to assume you were hypocritical in your stances, but I was just pointing out a lot of people are. Most people have some form of opinion about something that doesn't impact them on both sides of the political spectrum.

    At least it's good your stance is the same throughout all the issues.

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  14. #49
    frosty

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    He's a racist piece of shit and unfortunately alot of people support him but there's also a rise of the far right across the US & Europe right now (even one guy here defended the Charlottesville Nazi driver a few years ago lol)

  15. #50
    WavY
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    Quote Originally Posted by frosty View Post
    He's a racist piece of shit and unfortunately alot of people support him but there's also a rise of the far right across the US & Europe right now (even one guy here defended the Charlottesville Nazi driver a few years ago lol)
    please give me evidence to how he is racist

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