Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Noxstar
    Borderlands 3
    Noxstar's Avatar
    Join Date:
    December 2018
    Location:
    Sanctuary III
    Posts:
    665

    Simon Says and Deathgames from CT's

    I'm having a lot of conflicting arguments over this death game, one of which is when "Simon" says "Simon says you all have a freeday" then proceed to kill them. I'm wondering if Simon has to say the game ended or something or why simon says that then if they take a step they die. I'm more confused as to why that is even in Jailbreak.

    Another problem I'm feeling a bit indifferent about is when you are simon and your ct buddy kills them for you and you feel as if they weren't supposed to be killed. Is it legal for that ct to kill for you?

    -----------

    Deathgames given by CT's (not the ordinary dg's)
    but custom ones given. If it seems unfair, I feel as if the t could go back to whatever the order originally was. If the t stays for the custom-made deathgame well go ahead, even though this is a very uncommon occurance, I don't know if something should be done about this since custom dg's have be explained in 1 round if not given another.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Noxstar For This Useful Post:
    Tweedledee (04-05-2019)

  3. #2
    fantastic
    Community Advisor
    fantastic's Avatar
    Join Date:
    August 2015
    Location:
    that one scuffed dirt house
    Posts:
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxstar View Post
    I'm having a lot of conflicting arguments over this death game, one of which is when "Simon" says "Simon says you all have a freeday" then proceed to kill them. I'm wondering if Simon has to say the game ended or something or why simon says that then if they take a step they die. I'm more confused as to why that is even in Jailbreak.

    Another problem I'm feeling a bit indifferent about is when you are simon and your ct buddy kills them for you and you feel as if they weren't supposed to be killed. Is it legal for that ct to kill for you?
    Why would "Simon" kill everyone if they've given everyone a freeday? That's a valid order and T's should be expected to have a freeday until the next order from "Simon". If T's take a step then that is fine because the order was "freeday".

    Think about this outside the context of "Simon Says". If I say "All Ts freeze", then say "All Ts have a freeday", of course Ts are going to unfreeze because they have a freeday now. A freeday does not mean "you must follow the previous orders until I tell you not to, at which point you can then have a freeday". A freeday means "do whatever you want as long as it's not rebelling".

    Simon Says should only be used as a voluntary deathgame, not a forced deathgame. A forced deathgame must be map-made.


    Quote Originally Posted by Noxstar View Post
    Deathgames given by CT's (not the ordinary dg's)
    but custom ones given. If it seems unfair, I feel as if the t could go back to whatever the order originally was. If the t stays for the custom-made deathgame well go ahead, even though this is a very uncommon occurance, I don't know if something should be done about this since custom dg's have be explained in 1 round if not given another.
    "If it seems unfair, I feel as if the t could go back to whatever the order originally was."

    First of all, this is assuming this is a voluntary deathgame since forced deathgames must be map-made, and the map must do the killing. If you feel it's unfair, then no you can't just go back to whatever the order originally was because you signed up for the voluntary deathgame. Regardless of whether or not it's fair, you decided that "yeah, I'll take the risk of dying for some fun"; you should not be able to then go back on this decision after deciding the deathgame is not for you.

    I noticed there isn't anything on voluntary deathgames in the rules ( @Dominic ), so I will assume that voluntary deathgames are purely a player-made construct and that anything that happens in a voluntary deathgame is accepted by the T once they've indicated consent. If it's unfair, that's on you for accepting a voluntary deathgame, so you should not be able to go back to the previous order.

    Good questions though.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to fantastic For This Useful Post:
    Legendary Kano (04-05-2019), Noxstar (04-05-2019), TheZZL (04-05-2019)

  5. #3
    Noxstar
    Borderlands 3
    Noxstar's Avatar
    Join Date:
    December 2018
    Location:
    Sanctuary III
    Posts:
    665
    Quote Originally Posted by fantastic View Post
    Why would "Simon" kill everyone if they've given everyone a freeday? That's a valid order and T's should be expected to have a freeday until the next order from "Simon". If T's take a step then that is fine because the order was "freeday".

    Think about this outside the context of "Simon Says". If I say "All Ts freeze", then say "All Ts have a freeday", of course Ts are going to unfreeze because they have a freeday now. A freeday does not mean "you must follow the previous orders until I tell you not to, at which point you can then have a freeday". A freeday means "do whatever you want as long as it's not rebelling".

    Simon Says should only be used as a voluntary deathgame, not a forced deathgame. A forced deathgame must be map-made.



    "If it seems unfair, I feel as if the t could go back to whatever the order originally was."

    First of all, this is assuming this is a voluntary deathgame since forced deathgames must be map-made, and the map must do the killing. If you feel it's unfair, then no you can't just go back to whatever the order originally was because you signed up for the voluntary deathgame. Regardless of whether or not it's fair, you decided that "yeah, I'll take the risk of dying for some fun"; you should not be able to then go back on this decision after deciding the deathgame is not for you.

    I noticed there isn't anything on voluntary deathgames in the rules ( @Dominic ), so I will assume that voluntary deathgames are purely a player-made construct and that anything that happens in a voluntary deathgame is accepted by the T once they've indicated consent. If it's unfair, that's on you for accepting a voluntary deathgame, so you should not be able to go back to the previous order.
    Thanks for clearing the bottom section but again with simon says, it's weird because I see ct's killing them for moving after saying you have a fd (which is understandable), but if simon says you have a freeday, why would a ct kill you? I've seen it happen too often and I had a sense of it being fk.

  6. #4
    fantastic
    Community Advisor
    fantastic's Avatar
    Join Date:
    August 2015
    Location:
    that one scuffed dirt house
    Posts:
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxstar View Post
    Thanks for clearing the bottom section but again with simon says, it's weird because I see ct's killing them for moving after saying you have a fd (which is understandable), but if simon says you have a freeday, why would a ct kill you? I've seen it happen too often and I had a sense of it being fk.
    As I said in my reply I don't see any reason why CTs would kill people for moving after saying "Simon says you all have a freeday". AFAIK I would consider these freekills, but as for whether or not to punish/warn them I am unclear because the nature of voluntary deathgames is pretty abstract and not well-defined in the rules. Hoping to see a CA+ post in here about this.
    @Fuze @Takuto @Military_king

  7. #5
    Nick!
    Banned
    Banned

    Join Date:
    February 2019
    Location:
    Arlington, Virginia
    Posts:
    138
    what i do is say "you have a freeday" and kill them when they move

  8. #6
    Tweedledee
    VIP
    Tweedledee's Avatar
    Join Date:
    January 2019
    Location:
    New York
    Posts:
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick! View Post
    what i do is say "you have a freeday" and kill them when they move
    See but that’s okay because you didn’t say “Simon says you have a freeday”. By just saying “you have a freeday” you’re tricking the T’s.

  9. #7
    Fuze
    Slayer of Grandmas
    Fuze's Avatar
    Join Date:
    August 2009
    Posts:
    1,519
    I would say it is a freekill if "Simon" goes "Simon says you all have a free day" and then proceeds to gun everyone down when they go to have their freeday that is a freekill since they are properly following the game. The issue becomes when "Simon" gives a new order if the Ts are already all over the map and they start gunning people down that were playing they open themselves up to mistakes if they don't remember everyone who volunteered for the deathgame as well as making things confusing for the CTs who are dealing with everyone who didn't volunteer for the deathgame as they most likely didn't pay any attention to those who did volunteer and may shoot people who are having the Simon says freeday thinking they are rebelling.

    It's technically allowed with the current ruleset but I can see how this can easily become confusing for others. It may have to be something the team discusses if it becomes a prominent issue.
    @Takuto @Military_king thoughts?

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Fuze For This Useful Post:
    Tyymunk (04-05-2019)

  11. #8
    Military_king
    Community Advisor
    Military_king's Avatar
    Join Date:
    February 2016
    Location:
    Jail Break
    Posts:
    416
    With the first circumstance given by Noxstar here the ct kills all of the ts due to him saying “Simon says you all have a freeday”, is freekilling due to it being an valid order unless he did something like where he changed that he is now something else and is not simon. In respect to fuze’s response, I think that the burden of knowing who has a freeday due to a deathgame falls upon the ct team to remember. Typically, if i ever forget who has a freeday and who doesnt, in orde rto regroup the ts i just revoke all of the ts freedays and tell them to follow current orders.

  12. #9
    Lokibelowkey
    SG Addict
    Lokibelowkey's Avatar
    Join Date:
    June 2018
    Location:
    Canada
    Posts:
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by Tweedledee View Post
    See but that’s okay because you didn’t say “Simon says you have a freeday”. By just saying “you have a freeday” you’re tricking the T’s.
    First off that is the whole objective of siomon says to give orders until they don't follow one and kill the to thin out the herd. It is common place to confuse the t's to complete this objective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxstar View Post
    I'm having a lot of conflicting arguments over this death game, one of which is when "Simon" says "Simon says you all have a freeday" then proceed to kill them. I'm wondering if Simon has to say the game ended or something or why simon says that then if they take a step they die. I'm more confused as to why that is even in Jailbreak.
    When Simon gives an order like to crouch and stay crouching, look at me at all times, to freeze, etc. when they give a order like freeday it doesn't override the previous orders and if they don't follow the orders previously they are allowed to be killed. This is very misleading as you don't talk about all previous orders and the context, especially if they said that "simon says simon will now be refereed as joe. At that point if they follow the order they can be killed or that T's are now refereed to as snowflakes they can be also killed for following it. if you give a order like to crouch then say to have a freeday they don't uncrouch just like when you say crouch and tell them to go somewhere it doesn't imply that the stop crouching.

    Quote Originally Posted by fantastic View Post
    Think about this outside the context of "Simon Says". If I say "All Ts freeze", then say "All Ts have a freeday", of course Ts are going to unfreeze because they have a freeday now. A freeday does not mean "you must follow the previous orders until I tell you not to, at which point you can then have a freeday". A freeday means "do whatever you want as long as it's not rebelling"..
    That's why its a death game it follows different rules then normal then regular jb, in jb it automatically over ride previous orders as where in simon says it doesn't. you are comparing apples to oranges and that is very unfair.


    That being said as long as they give orders that where the T's would be disobeying during the death "Simon says" when you give an order like "Simon says have a freeday" if they infringe on the orders previously given you can kill them. If they don't give previous orders and kill you for following the simon says orders it is freekill

  13. #10
    fantastic
    Community Advisor
    fantastic's Avatar
    Join Date:
    August 2015
    Location:
    that one scuffed dirt house
    Posts:
    1,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokibelowkey View Post
    That's why its a death game it follows different rules then normal then regular jb, in jb it automatically over ride previous orders as where in simon says it doesn't. you are comparing apples to oranges and that is very unfair.

    if they infringe on the orders previously given you can kill them. If they don't give previous orders and kill you for following the simon says orders it is freekill
    This might be helpful for you:
    https://www.wikihow.com/Play-Simon-Says

    Specifically:


    Since when do you need to dictate when an order stops being applicable in Simon Says? The point of Simon Says is to trick someone into following an order that doesn't start with "Simon Says", not to trick them into following orders that were given previously until the CT says you don't have to anymore. It's not comparing apples to oranges because there's no rule that says "oh yeah, on JB you have to continue following previous orders in Simon Says" o_o. Could you imagine how annoying it would be to have to remember 5 orders at once until the CT says "oh yeah, you can stop crouching now"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Military_king View Post
    With the first circumstance given by Noxstar here the ct kills all of the ts due to him saying “Simon says you all have a freeday”, is freekilling due to it being an valid order unless he did something like where he changed that he is now something else and is not simon.
    This right here.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •