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Josh
08-23-2008, 12:06 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/23/biden.democrat.vp.candidate/index.html

like we didn't see it coming.....

Zero001
08-23-2008, 12:19 AM
About as solid of a choice as he can make. I had a feeling he was in the top two. He doesn't hurt Obama, but doesn't necessarily help him.

barackobama
08-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Just saw it on the news here..

Good pick, as far as I know, the guy is good.

Italian Jew
08-23-2008, 12:46 AM
Watch, they will find out he only tipped somebody 5%...the GOP is going to find some dirt on him, you just watch.

Zero001
08-23-2008, 12:57 AM
Watch, they will find out he only tipped somebody 5%...the GOP is going to find some dirt on him, you just watch.

Too late for that, there's already a bunch of dirt on him. Honestly though, anyone that thinks crap like that is going to win or loose an election is hopeless. At this point most people have their minds made up and those that are undecided aren't getting what they want to hear. The uneducated that actually use stupid shit like that as their reason to vote or not vote for a candidate where probably going to vote that way to begin with.

LegalSmash
08-23-2008, 02:18 AM
Despite my reservations about obama himself, I respect Biden, and consider him to be a good pick for VP. His very stiff, unforgiving questioning of every supreme court justice nominee since he has been in the senate and policies he's had a hand in on judicial policy are both respectable. I can appreciate a guy that doesn't leave the questions for SCOTUS judges to strictly "what do you think of abortion", or "are drugs bad", he was asking judicial ethics and precedent-set/overturn style questions that had those poor bastards shitting themselves.

Veggie
08-23-2008, 05:11 AM
I respect Biden as well, Strong on foreign policy which is what we really need right now between Russia, Iran etc.

Repeat
08-23-2008, 12:16 PM
I respect Biden a helluva lot more than I do Obama, mainly because he's a six term senator that knows what's up and how things work. BUT - He's the choice for VP. They've still got a wet-behind-the-ears-flaming-liberal with socialistic tendencies running as President. THAT I don't respect.

Italian Jew
08-23-2008, 02:49 PM
Looks like I need to pull this out again...



http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6841/tinfoilhatareaac4.jpg







...and he eats babies too! Like OMFGWOW!


:partydance:



I think it is funny/stupid though how some Clinton supports are all pissed because Obama didn't think too much of Clinton. Talk about a bunch of sore fucking losers. "WTFZORS!? You didn't even put Clinton in the semi-finals!? I'm not voting for you now even though I agree with over 90% of what you say!"

LegalSmash
08-23-2008, 06:42 PM
Looks like I need to pull this out again...



http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6841/tinfoilhatareaac4.jpg







...and he eats babies too! Like OMFGWOW!


:partydance:



I think it is funny/stupid though how some Clinton supports are all pissed because Obama didn't think too much of Clinton. Talk about a bunch of sore fucking losers. "WTFZORS!? You didn't even put Clinton in the semi-finals!? I'm not voting for you now even though I agree with over 90% of what you say!"

It appears to me most Clit'n supporters are pissed off soccer moms and old-lezzes that wanted to see something with a big, gaping, bleeding hole and a mood swing issue to lead the free world. If they really cared about their political party (not that I advocate such an act) they'd get behind hootie and the jew-fish.

GrayFox
08-23-2008, 09:55 PM
It appears to me most Clit'n supporters are pissed off soccer moms and old-lezzes that wanted to see something with a big, gaping, bleeding hole and a mood swing issue to lead the free world. If they really cared about their political party (not that I advocate such an act) they'd get behind hootie and the jew-fish.

These are the same people that switched to voting for Mccain simply because they wanted Hilary to win and can't stand to have Obama win.

But as for Binden
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/5/53/Pedobear_chase300x200.gif/180px-Pedobear_chase300x200.gif

Italian Jew
08-23-2008, 10:10 PM
The same fucktards who are like "Barack HUSSEIN Obama....HUSSEIN. This Mr. Barack HUSSEIN Obama wants to be president, but what Barack HUSSEIN Obama doesn't know is that the American people don't want a black, muslim as our president. Now, Barack HUSSEIN Obama is not even American. Barack HUSSEIN Obama's birth certificate is an obvious forgery! We get our news from the National Inquirer, so Barack HUSSEIN Obama cannot hide from us, nor Bigfoot."

GrayFox
08-23-2008, 10:17 PM
I don't even get why his name or that he doesn't wear a lapel pin is that big of a deal. Not everyone named Hussein is a terrorist you racist idiots. And hes not American just because he doesn't wear a ping with the flag on it? People, everyone in this country is from somewhere else, so technically YOUR not American either.
Then theres people that say because hes black he'll favor blacks. Yea? I'd imagine that the presidents from Washington to #15 favored whites.

Bill Smauz
08-23-2008, 10:41 PM
The same fucktards who are like "Barack HUSSEIN Obama....HUSSEIN. This Mr. Barack HUSSEIN Obama wants to be president, but what Barack HUSSEIN Obama doesn't know is that the American people don't want a black, muslim as our president. Now, Barack HUSSEIN Obama is not even American. Barack HUSSEIN Obama's birth certificate is an obvious forgery! We get our news from the National Inquirer, so Barack HUSSEIN Obama cannot hide from us, nor Bigfoot."

But he is :confused1:

andre1028
08-24-2008, 12:06 AM
About as solid of a choice as he can make. I had a feeling he was in the top two. He doesn't hurt Obama, but doesn't necessarily help him.

Yup, right on spot.

tehsnipes
08-24-2008, 12:45 AM
He's a respectable choice, he will help Obama with the working class vote. GOP will probably find insignificant shit on him or make stuff up about Obama.



They've still got a wet-behind-the-ears-flaming-liberal with socialistic tendencies running as President. THAT I don't respect.

So you don't like Obama since hes liberal but you respect Biden?? Not really valid since both are liberal. Obama is very smart and his lack of "experience" is a refresher, hes not ruled by special interests and doesn't have just the wealthy in mind. He knows the situation of the american people as does Biden. It's McCain that doesn't have a clue.

LegalSmash
08-24-2008, 02:22 AM
So you don't like Obama since hes liberal but you respect Biden?? Not really valid since both are liberal. Obama is very smart and his lack of "experience" is a refresher, hes not ruled by special interests and doesn't have just the wealthy in mind. He knows the situation of the american people as does Biden. It's McCain that doesn't have a clue.

Actually, no one really does have a clue out of the presidential candidates. Neither candidate has shown any real ability to command a majority of the vote, youll see more hillaristas deserting hootie and biden for MCCain as time draws closer to the election. Many people may SAY they want Obama, but most of America is taxphobic enough to not vote for him out of fear of higher taxation (which he WILL do, no doubt about it).

As for your pedantics about inexperience being a "refresher", its not, its a huge liability. We do not need another inexperienced person working foreign policy. In that sense, Bush and Obama are very much alike, neither had any real foreign relations or applicable governmental administrative experience in foreign policy, what makes a stark difference however, is that Bush essentially inherited a 9-11, whereas with Obama, its 7 years in the past and the American people in typical fashion are in "lets forget the bad" rape victim mentality. If Obama had been pres when 9-11 happened, I nearly guarantee that we still would have immediately taken a very similar, if not identical course of action.

This being said, its not impossible to like Obama and respect Biden, as they are two different forms of liberal. One is a pipe dreaming elitist retard who is where he is because he is photogenic and the media has been largely forgiving of him, and the other is a 35 year statesman that makes federal high court judge appointees sweat. Not everything is all or nothing,

I, and much of America prefers a war veteran, or someone who has at some point served in the Armed Forces as a president rather than a draft dodger or in Barack's case, a person in a generation that did not HAVE a war to call their own, a person who spent a minimum of an enlistment in the military. A person that has gone through the shit that line officers and soldiers go through even in peace time would be reverent of the concept of peace, but know that when the situation dictates, we must defend ourselves, even if it is preemptive and proactive. This is part of the reason why I feel more comfortable with McCain, who served the nation in a time of turbulence. Biden here, avoided otherwise compulsory service in Nam by hiding behind deferment, much like Clinton.


Biden is respectable because hes got thirty five years worth of work under his belt and has served on two of the most important committees, judicial and foreign. Additionally, while flagrantly liberal, he has an understanding of what works and doesn't... resulting in less pipe dream liberalism. Biden for the most part can ground himself in some semblance of reality and has the bumps on his head to back his assertions with experience rather than hootie, who has consistently asked for change like a homeless whore.

Again, its not impossible to reconcile the two points. I respect him largely because of his work on the Judiciary Committee, but aside from that I would not choose him for much.

BTW, you should still die in a fire.


______________

Re Gray: as a member of the Senate, the physical embodiment, essentially, of the will of the American people, he should wear a pin and cover his heart at time of pledge. There is no excuse for what he did. He is not regular joe, he is a presidential candidate and should behave accordingly, which includes revering the country. Despite what they do in the people's republic of taxachussets and Cali, the rest of the country (where the majority of voters come from) really REALLY care about that sort of thing.

Josh
08-24-2008, 02:35 AM
Actually, no one really does have a clue out of the presidential candidates. Neither candidate has shown any real ability to command a majority of the vote, youll see more hillaristas deserting hootie and biden for MCCain as time draws closer to the election. Many people may SAY they want Obama, but most of America is taxphobic enough to not vote for him out of fear of higher taxation (which he WILL do, no doubt about it).

As for your pedantics about inexperience being a "refresher", its not, its a huge liability. We do not need another inexperienced person working foreign policy. In that sense, Bush and Obama are very much alike, neither had any real foreign relations or applicable governmental administrative experience in foreign policy, what makes a stark difference however, is that Bush essentially inherited a 9-11, whereas with Obama, its 7 years in the past and the American people in typical fashion are in "lets forget the bad" rape victim mentality. If Obama had been pres when 9-11 happened, I nearly guarantee that we still would have immediately taken a very similar, if not identical course of action.

This being said, its not impossible to like Obama and respect Biden, as they are two different forms of liberal. One is a pipe dreaming elitist retard who is where he is because he is photogenic and the media has been largely forgiving of him, and the other is a 35 year statesman that makes federal high court judge appointees sweat. Not everything is all or nothing,

I, and much of America prefers a war veteran, or someone who has at some point served in the Armed Forces as a president rather than a draft dodger or in Barack's case, a person in a generation that did not HAVE a war to call their own, a person who spent a minimum of an enlistment in the military. A person that has gone through the shit that line officers and soldiers go through even in peace time would be reverent of the concept of peace, but know that when the situation dictates, we must defend ourselves, even if it is preemptive and proactive. This is part of the reason why I feel more comfortable with McCain, who served the nation in a time of turbulence. Biden here, avoided otherwise compulsory service in Nam by hiding behind deferment, much like Clinton.


Biden is respectable because hes got thirty five years worth of work under his belt and has served on two of the most important committees, judicial and foreign. Additionally, while flagrantly liberal, he has an understanding of what works and doesn't... resulting in less pipe dream liberalism. Biden for the most part can ground himself in some semblance of reality and has the bumps on his head to back his assertions with experience rather than hootie, who has consistently asked for change like a homeless whore.

Again, its not impossible to reconcile the two points. I respect him largely because of his work on the Judiciary Committee, but aside from that I would not choose him for much.

BTW, you should still die in a fire.


______________

Re Gray: as a member of the Senate, the physical embodiment, essentially, of the will of the American people, he should wear a pin and cover his heart at time of pledge. There is no excuse for what he did. He is not regular joe, he is a presidential candidate and should behave accordingly, which includes revering the country. Despite what they do in the people's republic of taxachussets and Cali, the rest of the country (where the majority of voters come from) really REALLY care about that sort of thing.This pretty much sums up my exact feelings toward both Obama and McCain, as well as Biden. Well said Mr. legalsmash.

Astrum
08-24-2008, 02:45 AM
Since I find both candidates worthless I don't really care who the VP is.

It's a shame that the voter's motto is "vote for the lesser of two evils". It's a disgusting mentality.

*Queen VenomousFate*
08-24-2008, 04:17 AM
Barrack America... lol

I really don't think that "Obama Biden" has any ring to it. I pick my presidents based on how their names sound together. "Bush Cheney" and "Kerry Edwards" sounded so much better then "Obama Biden".

If McCain goes with "McCain Romney" I will definatly vote for him because that has a ring to it, but if he goes with "McCain Pawlenty" It is gonna be close since that doesnt have much more ring then "Obama Biden" but I must admit it sounds a bit better.

Although from now on I am just refering to the Democratic ticket as "Obaiden".

(I think that is the reason the names don't sound good together, is because they can be so easily blended together, try blending McCain and Romney together into one flowing word.)

LegalSmash
08-24-2008, 09:46 AM
Although from now on I am just refering to the Democratic ticket as "Obaiden".

be careful, that may be enough to carry the otaku, weeaboo-japanophile vote.

Repeat
08-24-2008, 10:11 AM
He's a respectable choice, he will help Obama with the working class vote. GOP will probably find insignificant shit on him or make stuff up about Obama.




So you don't like Obama since hes liberal but you respect Biden?? Not really valid since both are liberal. Obama is very smart and his lack of "experience" is a refresher, hes not ruled by special interests and doesn't have just the wealthy in mind. He knows the situation of the american people as does Biden. It's McCain that doesn't have a clue.


Haha, it's not valid for me to respect Biden but think Obama is a dumbfuck? You see things in black and white. I see things in shades of shit. I don't like either of their politics, but I respect Biden for his accomplishments. Obama, on the other hand, really has no accomplishments except for being a famous black dude.

His lack of experience is REFRESHING?! HAHAHAHA That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life. You actually want a man with no experience in the White House as the ruler of the free world? What the fuck is wrong with you? Enjoy the refreshment when this country plunges into the icy cold and dark waters of socialism from where there is no return. Don't be expecting a life preserver from me. But of course, I'm guessing you'd love that so you wouldn't have to work hard ever again because hey, if the 'rich' will pay for your ride, why not?

Do me a favor and go sleep on some railroad tracks.

LegalSmash
08-24-2008, 10:16 AM
Haha, it's not valid for me to respect Biden but think Obama is a dumbfuck? You see things in black and white. I see things in shades of shit. I don't like either of their politics, but I respect Biden for his accomplishments. Obama, on the other hand, really has no accomplishments except for being a famous black dude.

His lack of experience is REFRESHING?! HAHAHAHA That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life. You actually want a man with no experience in the White House as the ruler of the free world? What the fuck is wrong with you? Enjoy the refreshment when this country plunges into the icy cold and dark waters of socialism from where there is no return. Don't be expecting a life preserver from me. But of course, I'm guessing you'd love that so you wouldn't have to work hard ever again because hey, if the 'rich' will pay for your ride, why not?

Do me a favor and go sleep on some railroad tracks.

I thought litkey said this prick snipes was permbanned, can we vote ban him for fail? lol.

Italian Jew
08-24-2008, 01:06 PM
You see things in black and white. I see things in shades of shit.

Btw, what are shades of shit? Brown, brownish-gray, brownish-green, etc.? You should get that checked out. Now more seriously...


Shades of what, socialist and not socialist? Sounds to me like that is black and white, considering you think anything that is left is socialist. You don't even have different levels of it, you just think, "Hey, he wants to tax the rich, what a socialist!" If you were thinking in shades, you would be more like, "Hey, he wants to tax the rich to fund some programs and get out of our debt, he seems to the left and has some socialistic ideas, but not a socialist."

If Obama becomes president, this country would not turn socialist. The very idea that something like that could happen is idiotic. He would have no power, nor would congress, to be able to decide that. The people have to be ,"OK gaiz, let's do it!" which I am sure 99% of this country wouldn't say. Only the crazy college wackos would be cool with it, but they wouldn't do anything because they are also typically pacifists and/or lazy.

Do you think, even if Obama and the rest of the democrats were as evil as you paint them out to be, that if they said "Now we are the Socialist States of America!" the people would sit and take that? I think you know how the U.S. reacts to things like this. However, since Obama and the rest of the democrats are not bent on making this country a socialist nation, they can only make some changes to try and help the country. If they don't work, we can try something else because that is why we elect different people into public office; not one person or political party has all the answers.

So if Obama is elected, please don't go apeshit over it. The "OMGZORS, Obama is a flaming socialist! RUN FOR THE HILLS! ALL OUR BASE ARE BELONG TO HIM!" mentality just shows how fucked up one was brought up and chooses to think, or rather the lack of actual thinking. If McCain wins, do you think I am going to go apeshit? No. I realize that if he wins, he gets a shot at fixing things. If it doesn't work, we can try something else. It's not the end of the world. So get your panties out of a bunch, get out from under the covers, and relax.

Robfal
08-24-2008, 04:51 PM
I say we give Obama a chance. We've paid high prices in the past for electing dumbfuck presidents. If he messes up in office, so be it! But if he improves our country and helps us out, I dont wanna see all you anti-Obama people take your feet out of your mouth.

PotshotPolka
08-24-2008, 04:53 PM
I say we give Obama a chance. We've paid high prices in the past for electing dumbfuck presidents. If he messes up in office, so be it! But if he improves our country and helps us out, I dont wanna see all you anti-Obama people take your feet out of your mouth.

Oh my GOD TAKE COVER

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/NTS_Barrage_Balloon.jpg/300px-NTS_Barrage_Balloon.jpg

tehsnipes
08-24-2008, 05:50 PM
Haha, it's not valid for me to respect Biden but think Obama is a dumbfuck? You see things in black and white. I see things in shades of shit. I don't like either of their politics, but I respect Biden for his accomplishments. Obama, on the other hand, really has no accomplishments except for being a famous black dude.

His lack of experience is REFRESHING?! HAHAHAHA That's the most absurd thing I've ever heard in my life. You actually want a man with no experience in the White House as the ruler of the free world? What the fuck is wrong with you? Enjoy the refreshment when this country plunges into the icy cold and dark waters of socialism from where there is no return. Don't be expecting a life preserver from me. But of course, I'm guessing you'd love that so you wouldn't have to work hard ever again because hey, if the 'rich' will pay for your ride, why not?

Do me a favor and go sleep on some railroad tracks.

Lawl! Shows how biased you are. You still haven't articulate the real reason you dislike Obama. Calling him a socialist, elitist, and poster boy for the media is just a joke. Italian Makes a genuine point. Obama is raising taxes only for the top 1% of Americans who your pal Bush gave taxcuts to. He in fact promised to cut taxes to 95% of Americans. Electing Obama will in no way make this country a Communist one. That notion by itself is idiotic.

By experience I mean "Washington" experience. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has taken nearly $1.2 million in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other Senator. McCain sides with the telecom companies on retroactive immunity. (EX:Paxson communications). Obama is clearly untainted by that shit.

FICTION:
McCain says: "...Everybody says that they are against the special interests. I'm the only one the special interests don't give any money to."
(Town Hall; New London, New Hampshire, 11/18/2007)

FACT:
McCain has Taken At Least $1,163,727 from the Telephone Utility and Telecom Services Industries -- More than Any Other Senator. Senator McCain has taken at least $1,163,727 in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other Senator. [Analysis of Center for Responsive Politics data]

McCain Accepted At Least $689,704 from the Lobbying Industry. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain accepted at least $689,704 from the lobbying industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, accessed 1/18/08]

McCain Accepted At Least $447,962 from Oil & Gas Industry. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has accepted at least $447,962 from the oil and gas industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, accessed 1/08/08]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its hilarious how you say Obama is in his position due to the media. Your pal McCain made it the same way. No politician in Washington understands journalists better than McCain does. For years, he has courted, flattered, and cooperated with journalists in an attempt to win their affections. The results have been impressive. Literally thousands of times, reporters have written or said that McCain is a "maverick" who delivers "straight talk," the Arizona senator's campaign slogans infusing his coverage. While some politicians seek legislative accomplishments to rise up the ladder, McCain's strategy for advancement was built on press relations. Were it not for his unique relationship with reporters, it is unlikely that McCain would be his party's nominee for president. It was the media's favorable treatment of McCain - putting him on the front pages, penning fawning profiles of him, and inviting him on the network Sunday morning talk shows 154 times over the past 10 years (more than any other political figure) - that made McCain a national figure.

Repeat
08-24-2008, 06:25 PM
Btw, what are shades of shit? Brown, brownish-gray, brownish-green, etc.? You should get that checked out. Now more seriously...


Shades of what, socialist and not socialist? Sounds to me like that is black and white, considering you think anything that is left is socialist. You don't even have different levels of it, you just think, "Hey, he wants to tax the rich, what a socialist!" If you were thinking in shades, you would be more like, "Hey, he wants to tax the rich to fund some programs and get out of our debt, he seems to the left and has some socialistic ideas, but not a socialist."

If Obama becomes president, this country would not turn socialist. The very idea that something like that could happen is idiotic. He would have no power, nor would congress, to be able to decide that. The people have to be ,"OK gaiz, let's do it!" which I am sure 99% of this country wouldn't say. Only the crazy college wackos would be cool with it, but they wouldn't do anything because they are also typically pacifists and/or lazy.

Do you think, even if Obama and the rest of the democrats were as evil as you paint them out to be, that if they said "Now we are the Socialist States of America!" the people would sit and take that? I think you know how the U.S. reacts to things like this. However, since Obama and the rest of the democrats are not bent on making this country a socialist nation, they can only make some changes to try and help the country. If they don't work, we can try something else because that is why we elect different people into public office; not one person or political party has all the answers.

So if Obama is elected, please don't go apeshit over it. The "OMGZORS, Obama is a flaming socialist! RUN FOR THE HILLS! ALL OUR BASE ARE BELONG TO HIM!" mentality just shows how fucked up one was brought up and chooses to think, or rather the lack of actual thinking. If McCain wins, do you think I am going to go apeshit? No. I realize that if he wins, he gets a shot at fixing things. If it doesn't work, we can try something else. It's not the end of the world. So get your panties out of a bunch, get out from under the covers, and relax.

The path to socialism isn't a short one, and the best way to make a journey is to go step by step (day by day), and that's exactly what is happening. It's not just the "tax the rich" mentality that leads me to believe that he will continue our journey but rather the fact that I've listened to him talk, there are tons of socialistic policies he wants to start up. This "change" he is talking about is just a euphemism for socialism. The man used to hang out with a flagrant communist that was chased out of the country by the FBI. He was his mentor!

Repeat
08-24-2008, 06:42 PM
Lawl! Shows how biased you are. You still haven't articulate the real reason you dislike Obama. Calling him a socialist, elitist, and poster boy for the media is just a joke. Italian Makes a genuine point. Obama is raising taxes only for the top 1% of Americans who your pal Bush gave taxcuts to. He in fact promised to cut taxes to 95% of Americans. Electing Obama will in no way make this country a Communist one. That notion by itself is idiotic.

Apparently you can't fucking read. I have more than made clear why I don't like him in many, many posts. He is socialist, elitist and poster boy for the media, so I don't see what the problem with calling him that is. Maybe I'm missing something here, but more likely you just don't like my reasons because they're true. Did you know that the top 5% of wage earners already pay over half of the tax burden? 53.25% to be precise. The top 10% pay almost 65% of the money that keeps this country rolling. And if we look at the top 50% of the country, it's 96 perfuckingcent of the tax burden. You liberals are all about "fairness and equality" so why don't you get your thumbs out of your asses and practice what you preach. Being punished for success is the shittiest thing I've ever heard of.


By experience I mean "Washington" experience. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has taken nearly $1.2 million in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other Senator. McCain sides with the telecom companies on retroactive immunity. (EX:Paxson communications). Obama is clearly untainted by that shit.

Okay, even better. You don't want the leader of our country, the man who runs Washington, to have any experience at it?! You fool. Corporations cannot legally give money to a candidate. The people who work for them though, the individuals, can give money to whomever they want. Obama gets the money too from his supporters. FACT: If you want to play that game, I'm sure I'll win.


FICTION:
McCain says: "...Everybody says that they are against the special interests. I'm the only one the special interests don't give any money to."
(Town Hall; New London, New Hampshire, 11/18/2007)

FACT:
McCain has Taken At Least $1,163,727 from the Telephone Utility and Telecom Services Industries -- More than Any Other Senator. Senator McCain has taken at least $1,163,727 in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other Senator. [Analysis of Center for Responsive Politics data]

McCain Accepted At Least $689,704 from the Lobbying Industry. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain accepted at least $689,704 from the lobbying industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, accessed 1/18/08]

McCain Accepted At Least $447,962 from Oil & Gas Industry. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has accepted at least $447,962 from the oil and gas industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, accessed 1/08/08]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its hilarious how you say Obama is in his position due to the media. Your pal McCain made it the same way. No politician in Washington understands journalists better than McCain does. For years, he has courted, flattered, and cooperated with journalists in an attempt to win their affections. The results have been impressive. Literally thousands of times, reporters have written or said that McCain is a "maverick" who delivers "straight talk," the Arizona senator's campaign slogans infusing his coverage. While some politicians seek legislative accomplishments to rise up the ladder, McCain's strategy for advancement was built on press relations. Were it not for his unique relationship with reporters, it is unlikely that McCain would be his party's nominee for president. It was the media's favorable treatment of McCain - putting him on the front pages, penning fawning profiles of him, and inviting him on the network Sunday morning talk shows 154 times over the past 10 years (more than any other political figure) - that made McCain a national figure.

First of all, Obama has not gotten to be in the position that he is just because of the media, though it is part of it. A larger part of his success is due to the fact that impressionable people such as yourself listen to his crap. It's laughable that you compare McCain to Obama in this area. The man has been a Senator for several decades. Hell, he was a POW for longer than Obama has been in Washington.

LegalSmash
08-24-2008, 07:34 PM
Lawl! Shows how biased you are. You still haven't articulate the real reason you dislike Obama. Calling him a socialist, elitist, and poster boy for the media is just a joke. Italian Makes a genuine point. Obama is raising taxes only for the top 1% of Americans who your pal Bush gave taxcuts to. He in fact promised to cut taxes to 95% of Americans. Electing Obama will in no way make this country a Communist one. That notion by itself is idiotic.

By experience I mean "Washington" experience. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has taken nearly $1.2 million in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other Senator. McCain sides with the telecom companies on retroactive immunity. (EX:Paxson communications). Obama is clearly untainted by that shit.

FICTION:
McCain says: "...Everybody says that they are against the special interests. I'm the only one the special interests don't give any money to."
(Town Hall; New London, New Hampshire, 11/18/2007)

FACT:
McCain has Taken At Least $1,163,727 from the Telephone Utility and Telecom Services Industries -- More than Any Other Senator. Senator McCain has taken at least $1,163,727 in campaign contributions from the telephone utility and telecom service industries, more than any other Senator. [Analysis of Center for Responsive Politics data]

McCain Accepted At Least $689,704 from the Lobbying Industry. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain accepted at least $689,704 from the lobbying industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, accessed 1/18/08]

McCain Accepted At Least $447,962 from Oil & Gas Industry. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, McCain has accepted at least $447,962 from the oil and gas industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, accessed 1/08/08]
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Its hilarious how you say Obama is in his position due to the media. Your pal McCain made it the same way. No politician in Washington understands journalists better than McCain does. For years, he has courted, flattered, and cooperated with journalists in an attempt to win their affections. The results have been impressive. Literally thousands of times, reporters have written or said that McCain is a "maverick" who delivers "straight talk," the Arizona senator's campaign slogans infusing his coverage. While some politicians seek legislative accomplishments to rise up the ladder, McCain's strategy for advancement was built on press relations. Were it not for his unique relationship with reporters, it is unlikely that McCain would be his party's nominee for president. It was the media's favorable treatment of McCain - putting him on the front pages, penning fawning profiles of him, and inviting him on the network Sunday morning talk shows 154 times over the past 10 years (more than any other political figure) - that made McCain a national figure.

Rejected.

At least he gets a check minus for effort in using spell check and grammar this time.

1. what repeat said, affirmed.

2. I find your lack of desire for experience in the MAN running the nation disturbing. This leads me to believe that you are either a college bandwagon liberal who won't vote to begin with because he's too busy getting stoned and harrassing passerby, or a moron non-American of Sgt. Omar like proportions that CAN'T vote. Either way, I feel safer. If you CAN vote, however, I am glad that only the poor dumb ones actually believe half of hootie's BS, and the other half just SAY they do to help alleviate their liberal white guilt.

Italian Jew
08-24-2008, 07:48 PM
The path to socialism isn't a short one, and the best way to make a journey is to go step by step (day by day), and that's exactly what is happening. It's not just the "tax the rich" mentality that leads me to believe that he will continue our journey but rather the fact that I've listened to him talk, there are tons of socialistic policies he wants to start up. This "change" he is talking about is just a euphemism for socialism. The man used to hang out with a flagrant communist that was chased out of the country by the FBI. He was his mentor!


Yay, the good ol' fashioned guilt by association fallacy mixed with fear. He was chased soooooo far out of the US, that he managed to die in Hawaii. I am sure Obama is a communist now. He hung out with one. Reading poetry and swapping ideas, sounds like the two devils were plotting the overthrow of our government. :001_rolleyes:

Whenever a policy is proposed that is designed to help people out, especially the lower classes, is that always socialism? Its not even socialist at all. Most of his policies are towards the left, but does that mean they are socialist because socialism is on the left? Not by any means. If it were true, then McCain's right-wing policies could be considered tyrannical and fascist. Maybe there is a double standard. Whatever the case, just fear for the worst. Apparently being scared and making others scared is the only tactic left.



As for the experience question, many presidents have been known to have been both inexperienced going into office and being very favorable as opposed to many presidents who had a lot of experience and essentially fucked it up.

Sandstorm
08-24-2008, 07:51 PM
The path to socialism isn't a short one, and the best way to make a journey is to go step by step (day by day), and that's exactly what is happening. It's not just the "tax the rich" mentality that leads me to believe that he will continue our journey but rather the fact that I've listened to him talk, there are tons of socialistic policies he wants to start up. This "change" he is talking about is just a euphemism for socialism. The man used to hang out with a flagrant communist that was chased out of the country by the FBI. He was his mentor!

we need socialism... capitolism is good, but it makes everything about money.. makes people corrupt. let the government take over the gas and airline buisness, that way we wont pay fucking 400$ a gallon for gas. -_- course i really have no idea if this is true ive just always thougght this so pls dont just OMFG NOOB

Repeat
08-24-2008, 08:00 PM
Yay, the good ol' fashioned guilt by association fallacy mixed with fear. He was chased soooooo far out of the US, that he managed to die in Hawaii. I am sure Obama is a communist now. He hung out with one. Reading poetry and swapping ideas, sounds like the two devils were plotting the overthrow of our government. :001_rolleyes:

Whenever a policy is proposed that is designed to help people out, especially the lower classes, is that always socialism? Its not even socialist at all. Most of his policies are towards the left, but does that mean they are socialist because socialism is on the left? Not by any means. If it were true, then McCain's right-wing policies could be considered tyrannical and fascist. Maybe there is a double standard. Whatever the case, just fear for the worst. Apparently being scared and making others scared is the only tactic left.

I can't help but to love you, Jew. If only your friends would follow suit with your mannerisms.

Anyway, to the point -- It's cool whenever a policy is designed to help people of lower classes out, that's great. But when that policy is designed to help those lower classes out and hurt the other classes at the same time -- putting them all on the same level -- that's socialism. Game Over.

Italian Jew
08-24-2008, 08:31 PM
I can't help but to love you, Jew. If only your friends would follow suit with your mannerisms.

Anyway, to the point -- It's cool whenever a policy is designed to help people of lower classes out, that's great. But when that policy is designed to help those lower classes out and hurt the other classes at the same time -- putting them all on the same level -- that's socialism. Game Over.

First off, they are not really my buds, pals, or chums.

Secondly, it is not putting everyone at the same level. The upper class is still the upper class because they are still rich. They may not be as rich as if they didn't have the taxes, but they will still have much more money than the other classes. It is lessening the gap between the classes, but there would still be sizeable differences between the classes.

The reason why the rich would get taxed more is because we now have a sizeable debt and many obligations that need payment. We can't just cut back taxes and let the debt grow nor can you just cut taxes and programs and expect that to fix all your problems as well. The upper class has the gift and curse of having a lot of money. They are the ones that can help out in the situation. While I do not think taxing the rich more because they are rich is universally just, I do believe it would help out a lot in our current situation. We have to cut back on some programs and get some more tax dollars to help pay off our debts or everybody loses.

It would be best if we didn't have to tax people and they would openly donate money for the government because they wanted to help (I know, utopian right?). However, since we cannot just ask the upper class to help out with the debt and expect a lot of money, we have to force them to pay. It may seem like a punishment, but you can also look at it as helping out the government and everyone else. Higher taxes now does not mean higher taxes forever. It is just a transition between economic highs and lows. Once you have little or significantly reduced debt, then we can get back to tax cuts and more benefits to the people.

What we cannot do is take the government for granted and expect them to uphold our rights and individual without helping them out. It is supposed to be a government for the people and by the people. If the government suffers, the people suffer. It is as simple as that.


*I am Italian Jew, and I approve of this message.



I am a bit tired and need some coffee, so excuse any errors or gaps between anything.


(Maybe one day we can have a candidate that tackles the issues based on the needs of the country at the time, not just on ideologies that pretend to last forever. Until then, we all get to pick our poison, cross our fingers, and hope something is fixed while another problem does not occur which becomes the central focus of the next election. Like I said before, a fucking utopia)

Repeat
08-24-2008, 08:43 PM
First off, they are not really my buds, pals, or chums.

Secondly, it is not putting everyone at the same level. The upper class is still the upper class because they are still rich. They may not be as rich as if they didn't have the taxes, but they will still have much more money than the other classes. It is lessening the gap between the classes, but there would still be sizeable differences between the classes.

The reason why the rich would get taxed more is because we now have a sizeable debt and many obligations that need payment. We can't just cut back taxes and let the debt grow nor can you just cut taxes and programs and expect that to fix all your problems as well. The upper class has the gift and curse of having a lot of money. They are the ones that can help out in the situation. While I do not think taxing the rich more because they are rich is universally just, I do believe it would help out a lot in our current situation. We have to cut back on some programs and get some more tax dollars to help pay off our debts or everybody loses.

It would be best if we didn't have to tax people and they would openly donate money for the government because they wanted to help (I know, utopian right?). However, since we cannot just ask the upper class to help out with the debt and expect a lot of money, we have to force them to pay. It may seem like a punishment, but you can also look at it as helping out the government and everyone else. Higher taxes now does not mean higher taxes forever. It is just a transition between economic highs and lows. Once you have little or significantly reduced debt, then we can get back to tax cuts and more benefits to the people.

What we cannot do is take the government for granted and expect them to uphold our rights and individual without helping them out. It is supposed to be a government for the people and by the people. If the government suffers, the people suffer. It is as simple as that.


*I am Italian Jew, and I approve of this message.



I am a bit tired and need some coffee, so excuse any errors or gaps between anything.


(Maybe one day we can have a candidate that tackles the issues based on the needs of the country at the time, not just on ideologies that pretend to last forever. Until then, we all get to pick our poison, cross our fingers, and hope something is fixed while another problem does not occur which becomes the central focus of the next election. Like I said before, a fucking utopia)

I can see where you're coming from, but here's the way I look at it. I'm a big fan of trickle-down economics. Some people say it doesn't work because they didn't see Reaganomics really kick into effect until late Bush-senior/Clinton era. I'm a firm believer that if the 'rich' have more money to spend, they will invest their money back into the economy, be it in their companies (which hire more people making more jobs) or purchasing goods (making more money for other companies which make more jobs for everyone). It's not a simple flick of the switch and the economic growth lights are on. It takes a few years for it to kick full into effect.

I do see higher taxes as punishment, and will continue to see it as such for a few reasons: Entitlement programs are total bullshit. I do see that some people NEED help, for instance people with handicaps. My uncle is mentally handicap and he is the hardest worker I've ever met. However he and many like him do require government assistance. The problem that I have is that so many fucktards abuse the system because they're lazy-ass-good-for-nothings and shouldn't get a damn dime of my money.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Get rid of the income tax. Implement the Fair tax. It's a glorious idea. The 'rich' people would still be paying more money than anyone else because they would be buying more. I don't see why the hubbub is about!

PS: I'm glad they're not your friends and I'm sorry for associating you with them. My bad.

Italian Jew
08-24-2008, 09:22 PM
The Fair Tax also has its flaws. I know people are concerned about tax evasiveness and some immediate economic shortcomings after its implementation. I don't know all the ins and outs about it as it can get very hard to read about if you go in depth.

From what I understand, some people say good things will happen while others say bad things will happen. I know something like this has been done in other countries with both good and bad results. From my point of view, since both theories are present with available evidence, I would say give it a shot. It may just be the scientist in me, but the only way you can know what will happen is if you experiment. If it works, keep it. If for some reason it turns out to be a bust after a while, then get rid of it and try something else.

What it might end up being is something that is ahead of its time. I know congress doesn't really want to talk about it too much, but that may change in time.

PotshotPolka
08-24-2008, 09:27 PM
I think the government should invest in nuclear missiles, they worked wonders for the economy in the eighties.

Repeat
08-25-2008, 08:37 AM
The Fair Tax also has its flaws. I know people are concerned about tax evasiveness and some immediate economic shortcomings after its implementation. I don't know all the ins and outs about it as it can get very hard to read about if you go in depth.

From what I understand, some people say good things will happen while others say bad things will happen. I know something like this has been done in other countries with both good and bad results. From my point of view, since both theories are present with available evidence, I would say give it a shot. It may just be the scientist in me, but the only way you can know what will happen is if you experiment. If it works, keep it. If for some reason it turns out to be a bust after a while, then get rid of it and try something else.

What it might end up being is something that is ahead of its time. I know congress doesn't really want to talk about it too much, but that may change in time.

I strongly suggest that you check out the Fair Tax more, it's really the smart way to go. It's not aligned to any one party, but more so the American People. I've done extensive research on it and it's "the bomb diggity" (isn't that what the kids are saying these days?)

I'm pissed at butthole John McCain for not supporting it.

LegalSmash
08-25-2008, 09:11 AM
I strongly suggest that you check out the Fair Tax more, it's really the smart way to go. It's not aligned to any one party, but more so the American People. I've done extensive research on it and it's "the bomb diggity" (isn't that what the kids are saying these days?)

I'm pissed at butthole John McCain for not supporting it.


Taxation as is right now is based on proportionality, a person that makes 25K will pay about 10-15% in federal income tax at most, that amount 2.5K-3K the proportionate amount to what that person can bear to pay. A person that makes enough to pay out 39.6% will still be able to afford his reasonable living expenses and pay out the proportion alloted.


A national retail tax will seriously damage consumer confidence further. Certain sectors of the economy, non-essentials, electronics, luxury items will suffer as people shift to solely essentials to avoid paying taxes, and we end up with a "Race to the bottom" to see how little we can pay.

People in this country are retards and cannot deal with having their whole paycheck and pay taxes, they over spend, they don't keep records of their financial history, they purchase shit on credit that they cannot possibly afford.

Adding this system would also reduce the likelihood of the citizen's debt to the credit companies being essentially "folded up" and essentially "kicked from the server" because the individual did not pay the taxes, or defaulted on a payment and the government, essentially a "super creditor" can essentially say "Well, Joe owes us first, we get paid first, not you, and if there is nothing left, well, you are fucked" leaving Visa, Mastercard, etc in a hole, or in a worst scenario still, paying off the taxes on the merchandise at initial purchase and THEN not being able to recover when Joe declares Bankruptcy.

I have previously worked with the IRS and CPAs, this whole "fair tax" nonsense is just that.

What needs to be done is an audit of every government agency, and each employee or agency section that is nonessential, has bad performance reports, or has outlived its usefulness, should be cut. Further, less money should be paid out in welfare benefits to multiple child parents who continue to have the children despite a lack of jobs, no education should be provided to illegal immigrant (born THERE come HERE) children, nor health care.

In addition to this, setting price controls on food products such as milk, wheat, and corn would help stabilize prices currently and either stop paying farmers that make over 100K post taxes ANY subsidies or allow tax breaks for farmers that sell at a discount to the government which in turn uses the produce to provide low cost but standardized "rations" to the poor rather than a monthly check. The government should only provide welfare in the essentials.. there is no reason why Liberty City, Pork and Bean Project kids are running around in Jordans and their mothers have their nails done up while they live in subsidized housing while the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Another issue with fair tax is that the states will STILL be able to levy an income tax, and any other form of tax that they wish on top of the FT, so you would still lose money out of your paycheck before hand.

Lastly, regarding a point above, the fair tax leaves the person with their paycheck in full allegedly, well, you CAN go to your employer, and request to adust your withholding certificate to NOT withhold and pay on your own as you go.

Thats what I do, but that requires the person can also balance a checkbook and remember how much they owe.

Repeat
08-25-2008, 09:16 AM
Taxation as is right now is based on proportionality, a person that makes 25K will pay about 10-15% in federal income tax at most, that amount 2.5K-3K the proportionate amount to what that person can bear to pay. A person that makes enough to pay out 39.6% will still be able to afford his reasonable living expenses and pay out the proportion alloted.


A national retail tax will seriously damage consumer confidence further. Certain sectors of the economy, non-essentials, electronics, luxury items will suffer as people shift to solely essentials to avoid paying taxes, and we end up with a "Race to the bottom" to see how little we can pay.

People in this country are retards and cannot deal with having their whole paycheck and pay taxes, they over spend, they don't keep records of their financial history, they purchase shit on credit that they cannot possibly afford.

Adding this system would also reduce the likelihood of the citizen's debt to the credit companies being essentially "folded up" and essentially "kicked from the server" because the individual did not pay the taxes, or defaulted on a payment and the government, essentially a "super creditor" can essentially say "Well, Joe owes us first, we get paid first, not you, and if there is nothing left, well, you are fucked" leaving Visa, Mastercard, etc in a hole, or in a worst scenario still, paying off the taxes on the merchandise at initial purchase and THEN not being able to recover when Joe declares Bankruptcy.

I have previously worked with the IRS and CPAs, this whole "fair tax" nonsense is just that.

What needs to be done is an audit of every government agency, and each employee or agency section that is nonessential, has bad performance reports, or has outlived its usefulness, should be cut. Further, less money should be paid out in welfare benefits to multiple child parents who continue to have the children despite a lack of jobs, no education should be provided to illegal immigrant (born THERE come HERE) children, nor health care.

In addition to this, setting price controls on food products such as milk, wheat, and corn would help stabilize prices currently and either stop paying farmers that make over 100K post taxes ANY subsidies or allow tax breaks for farmers that sell at a discount to the government which in turn uses the produce to provide low cost but standardized "rations" to the poor rather than a monthly check. The government should only provide welfare in the essentials.. there is no reason why Liberty City, Pork and Bean Project kids are running around in Jordans and their mothers have their nails done up while they live in subsidized housing while the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Another issue with fair tax is that the states will STILL be able to levy an income tax, and any other form of tax that they wish on top of the FT, so you would still lose money out of your paycheck before hand.

Lastly, regarding a point above, the fair tax leaves the person with their paycheck in full allegedly, well, you CAN go to your employer, and request to adust your withholding certificate to NOT withhold and pay on your own as you go.

Thats what I do, but that requires the person can also balance a checkbook and remember how much they owe.

Nah.




I want mah monies to spend on what I want. I don't want the buttholes taking it from me.

Agreed on welfare.

tehsnipes
08-25-2008, 10:37 PM
Nah.




I want mah monies to spend on what I want. I don't want the buttholes taking it from me.

Agreed on welfare.

I understand that but then how could you question Obama's patriotism. Seems like You don't care enough about your country to pay slightly higher taxes to better it. Agreed on the welfare. Chris Rock makes a good point of this in one of his standups.

LegalSmash
08-25-2008, 11:58 PM
I understand that but then how could you question Obama's patriotism. Seems like You don't care enough about your country to pay slightly higher taxes to better it. Agreed on the welfare. Chris Rock makes a good point of this in one of his standups.

Its never "slightly" for one, and if the people raising the taxes "cared about the nation" they'd add sunset provisions to repeal the tax after the financial need was paid for. Also, for all the shit that you say about the nation, since when do you care so much about it?

Repeat
08-26-2008, 05:50 AM
I understand that but then how could you question Obama's patriotism. Seems like You don't care enough about your country to pay slightly higher taxes to better it. Agreed on the welfare. Chris Rock makes a good point of this in one of his standups.

It's 6:44 in the morning and your bullshit is the first thing I see. GTFO. I have more patriotism in the curly little hair that sits on the bottom of my left nut than you do in your whole body. Don't you ever question that.

Slightly higher taxes?! Hahahah! The people in the upper tax bracket don't pay "slightly" higher taxes, they pay ridiculously higher taxes. They pay a way higher PERCENTAGE of what they earn. Again, you preach equality but when it comes to monetary issues some liberals tend to have a serious case of wealth envy. If you're going to keep standing on the equality soap box, why the fuck don't you start worrying about "rich" people's rights to equality.

LegalSmash
08-26-2008, 08:31 AM
It's 6:44 in the morning and your bullshit is the first thing I see. GTFO. I have more patriotism in the curly little hair that sits on the bottom of my left nut than you do in your whole body. Don't you ever question that.

Slightly higher taxes?! Hahahah! The people in the upper tax bracket don't pay "slightly" higher taxes, they pay ridiculously higher taxes. They pay a way higher PERCENTAGE of what they earn. Again, you preach equality but when it comes to monetary issues some liberals tend to have a serious case of wealth envy. If you're going to keep standing on the equality soap box, why the fuck don't you start worrying about "rich" people's rights to equality.

Liberal Equality Formula (measured in Lib Points LP)

Rich (-500LP), Upper Class White OVER 30 (Include Cubans, Indians, Asians, and other successful Minorities) (-600LP), with a USEFUL PROFESSIONAL DEGREE (-1000 LP) = Rich 99% PPL BAAAAAAAAAd. TAX THEM!!!!! ARRRGH

Poor (+99999999999 LP) "Minority" (READ: the ones that they "decide" are minorities based on political beliefs, immigrant status, willing to explode, and ability to shit out over 9000 illegitimate babies) (+over 90000 LP), nonchristian (except AME and ChrWrightistianity) (+202020202 LP), Gay, Lesbian, Manboy, Manbearpig, Ladyboy, Drag-o (+0ver 9000), Bullshit Liberal Arts degree (Especially anything (enter minority here) studies despite never having met said minority nor having any relation to them(+93039303 LP), willingness to fork over LOTS of teh monies for "the good of society" (READ: More government inefficiency and Nike Airs for the "underprivileged") (+ OVER 900000 LP) GIVE THEM TEH TAXES!!!!!

Italian Jew
08-26-2008, 12:17 PM
Manbearpig FTW!


http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/5540/1111manbearpigandkylenoye8.jpg