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Itendtokill
07-16-2008, 02:12 PM
Im just wondering what you all think about our 2 canidates.

Obama vs Mccain.

I am wanting Obama.

Who you looking at and why?

Red
07-16-2008, 02:21 PM
Obama has a mind, and ideas that can help us more then I believe mccain can..


Such as?

Please give us examples, other than "Change".

Itendtokill
07-16-2008, 02:29 PM
Change ~ Economy, iraq.

Im not to into it, I watch them debate once in a while

Red
07-16-2008, 02:34 PM
Does anybody know what the fuck kind of change he wants?

Change the economy? Into what?

It takes more than a slogan and bumper sticker campaign to make a good leader.

Stalin/Mussolini/Kim Jong Il/Mao/Hitler all wanted change.

GrayFox
07-16-2008, 02:34 PM
If your not into it, why did you start a thread?

And I'd vote for Obama, someone who's younger and I really couldn't care less that hes black.

Italian Jew
07-16-2008, 02:40 PM
Red has all the paranoia that Cold War parenting has to offer, don't mind him...

Didn't we have a poll before? One with Mudkipz? :D

GrayFox
07-16-2008, 02:44 PM
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j43/Viralrush/Mudkips1.gif

Red
07-16-2008, 02:45 PM
Red has all the paranoia that Cold War parenting has to offer

Well the fact that my family was forced to flea because of Communism/Socialism's spread in Asia and it's killing of some of my family is a very real factor in my attitudes towards it, and towards current leaders who are proponents of its ideologies, even if their supporters are no overtly aware of it.

I also have friends whose families came to this country because of similar circumstances (red governments). One of those of course being legal, different countries, same reasons.

Some of us learn from History and use it shape our opinions for the present and future, as such I don't want a leader who wants to steer us in that direction.

Itendtokill
07-16-2008, 02:45 PM
Lol, dont ever compare hitler with anything

Just the idea of you comparing him to what i am is bad

Hitlar was a evil person, and shouldn't be compared to a person who is wanting to do something good

GrayFox
07-16-2008, 02:46 PM
Nah man Hitler just wanted to purge the earth. I read something about how he loved animals too, and was a vegitarian(?)

Red
07-16-2008, 02:51 PM
I'm not comparing you to Hitler.

Just saying people using "change" as their campaign don't always have good change in mind. I was going to leave him off the list because I figured someone might say what you basically just said, but I didn't.

Red
07-16-2008, 03:08 PM
I found myself nodding as I read that Havok. Good post.



Again, I wasn't saying Obama wants to exterminate millions, rather he's using the platform of change without divulging important details, he's simply appealing to people's emotional sides. Something that scares me is the fact that his supporters don't care about the details, they just like his persona.

Lots of people liked Hitler's persona, charisma and emotional appeal too.

Italian Jew
07-16-2008, 03:12 PM
If you honestly think Obama is going to steer this country towards a completely socialist/dictator state where you have no freedoms whatsoever and you have to do what the government tells you, then what kind of backward ass thinking is that?

If you have no idea what his change policy is, then why claim it to be the absolute worst possible thing you can think of? If you look at the issues McCain lists and the ones Obama lists, they both acknowledge the problem and state what they will do. You can easily read what they seek to do, so by saying you don't know what Obama is doing, you are not sure of what McCain is doing because they both discuss their different solutions to a problem the same way.

So if Obama says change and that means "evil socialism", then the American revolutionaries saying that want change are a bunch of commie loving socialists as well? Change must be bad, especially since the US can have nothing to do with it. Obama is probably the most devious man on the planet thinking he can fool Red and die hard fanatics who know ignorance as the only refuge.

psh...

Red
07-16-2008, 03:12 PM
AHAHAHAHAHAAH Jim Jones. That's a good comparison, will have to put that into my anti-Obama rhetoric arsenal.

WHen I see the mega-rallies for Obama I do get that impression from his followers.

The applause he gets from saying the most ludicrous things scares me.

Danny G
07-16-2008, 04:00 PM
Seriously, who are you hoping wins president?

Republican or Demo?

I'm hoping Obama wins.. yes Mccain has more experience, but hes old and hes like bush.. war war war..

Obama has a mind, and ideas that can help us more then I believe mccain can..

Whats your opinions?

I am not american and do not know anything about America, but I think Obama would have been a great President, better than Bush anyway cause all he cares about is war war war like you said which is bad. Poor Children dies everyday in Iraq because of Bush.

Red
07-16-2008, 04:04 PM
I am not american and do not know anything about America, but I think Obama would have been a great President, better than Bush anyway cause all he cares about is war war war like you said which is bad. Poor Children dies everyday in Iraq because of Bush.

Yes because Bush has single-handedly kept this war going, congress has had nothing to do with it despite voting for it and continuing to support it, including beloved democrats including his holiness Obama, who has supported funding for Iraq, yes Real change there.

It's all always Bush



Italian: It's not one big sudden radical change, but small changes here and there dating back to Roosevelt that over time have lead to taxes up the ass, individual liberty being trampled on for the "greater good" etc etc. And Obama will just chip away at said personal liberties more.

PotshotPolka
07-16-2008, 04:20 PM
Change ~ Economy, iraq.

Im not to into it, I watch them debate once in a while

I have nothing against you, which is why for the love of god stay off this topic, it will do nothing but make me go through perfectly good fire extinguishers to put the damn thread out.

GrayFox
07-16-2008, 04:21 PM
Poor Children dies everyday in Iraq because of Bush.

Yes, Bush goes in there and just shoots them. Children were dying before Bush, and they will still be dying after Bush. Its not his fault. Do you think before you post, ever?

LegalSmash
07-16-2008, 05:21 PM
No he wasn't. And anyone who says so should undergo better history education.

The Holocaust wasn't the first time the Germans wanted Jewish dead. Their hatred goes back at least a thousand years. Best example: Black Death -- the Holy Roman Empire blamed the Jews and accused them of poisoning their water and planting evidence so they could get away with burning them.

Therefore, Hitler wasn't a mastermind who came up with the idea of mass murder.

Hitler's rise to power was as a politician. As Red said, he wanted national change. Hitler served in the German Army in World War I, and there's an experience in Mein Kampf that says when he witnessed it, it changed him and drove him mad. I mean, that aside, he had at least 5 assassination attempts, so it's no wonder he was so paranoid he blamed the Jews. They were the perfect scapegoat.

Therefore, Hitler had become a sociopath.

When he and his chiefs came up with the 'Final Solution', it was among many many other drastic and, frankly, insane ideas. He went out of his way to get it done. Trains that should have been transporting troops were instead heading to concentration camps. Trucks and vehicles that should be delivering equipment to soldiers further afield were converted. I mean, just look at what happened to his Sixth Army.

Therefore, Hitler was not only a shite strategist, he was also completely ignorant.


There are no evil people on this world. Every person is born at the expense of thousands of others. We each have a balance of good and evil inside of us, therefore one cannot have one totality.

Yes, I know it's hippy, but just think: Hitler wasn't the only one who would have been trialed for war crimes by the Allies.

EDIT: And besides, last time I checked, Jewish weren't the only ones killed in WWII.

I think th is post warrants thanks, while I can't figure out how to do it, dynamite post, havok.



I am not american and do not know anything about America, but I think Obama would have been a great President, better than Bush anyway cause all he cares about is war war war like you said which is bad. Poor Children dies everyday in Iraq because of Bush.

Okay, ignoring posts as irrelevant.


Yes because Bush has single-handedly kept this war going, congress has had nothing to do with it despite voting for it and continuing to support it, including beloved democrats including his holiness Obama, who has supported funding for Iraq, yes Real change there.

It's all always Bush



Italian: It's not one big sudden radical change, but small changes here and there dating back to Roosevelt that over time have lead to taxes up the ass, individual liberty being trampled on for the "greater good" etc etc. And Obama will just chip away at said personal liberties more.

Agreed.

Bottom line to me, Obama has made no affirmative statement regarding what change he wants, McCain has made half baked comments that don't entirely hold water. While I dislike uncertainty, I despise purposeful subterfuge more. The only thing I really admire about Barack is that he tells black people in the US to STFU and take responsibility for their actions, something that no black person except bill cosby does and the liberal left want his balls for it.

His statements on "fairing up" social security/Medicare FICA payments does not a thing for the actual middle class and just taxes a PORTION of the money made by those who make more than 205K, leaving 105K-205K completely unsubject to the FICA tax... mind you, EVERYONE making 0-105K is FULLY taxed. I dont hear hide nor hair of a reduction of tax on the middle class. Its bullshit, and he has the financial sense of a chimp (big surprise, usually a trait of young, well to do, inexperienced "community organizers" READ: I spent untaxed revenue at a 501c3 NFP).

The media for the most part has let him skate, and now that there are two of the dopes remaining, we are going to have to see what comes to a head regarding the men running.

If someone like Romney comes onto McCain's ticket, I'm all for them, because there will be someone with business sense... something the government needs. Hootie has no experience with anything relevant to the presidency. The last GOOD democratic presidents were military men, secretary of the navy, and business men. the Bama basically has lincoln/"magic negro syndrome", and when the average voter in this country, a middle class soccer mom and low middle class white male realize that he really doesnt have a plan, and hes just another politician, his magic will disappear rather quickly.

We dont need more dreamers, having wet dreams about change and social frutopia. We need a simple, effective plan, like the willys Jeep. It was not pretty, it was inexpensive, it had no luxuries, but it worked.

At the moment, I dislike both of them, and I refuse to vote based on dislike or desire to prevent someone else, but on a group that I can stomach.

As for Jew's comments re: Socialism, don't mind him folks, he lives quite well in his dorm, and its hip nowadays to be a leftist... once he starts working, or is personally affected by socialism, communism, as opposed to reading about it or hearing about its idealism from a professor, he'll take the proverbial left nut out of his throat and smarten up :)

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-16-2008, 05:53 PM
Does anybody know what the fuck kind of change he wants?

Change the economy? Into what?

It takes more than a slogan and bumper sticker campaign to make a good leader.

Stalin/Mussolini/Kim Jong Il/Mao/Hitler all wanted change.

Agreed

Obama Is A Complete Socialist, He Is The Most Liberal Member Of The Senate And He Regularly Wrtes Articles For A Socialist Newspaper In Chicago. They Have Socialist Right In The Name.

Obama's Change Is Simply Turning Us Into France Then Eventually Venezuala.

Slavic
07-17-2008, 03:39 AM
As with what Legal stated, I do not know enough or plainly trust either of the two nominees. I'd prefer a fiscal republican, but Mc Cain seems quite far from that. I used to like his policies before he started running and early in the party elections. That was until he was on the ticket and completely mimicked Bush.

Obama doesn't really lay out a clear plan at all about what kind of "change" he wants to accomplish. I honestly don't even know what the fuck he is trying to "change' or how he is going to do it. Not to mention that using such a buzzword in every single fucking speech does nothing to help his situation, except catching the fabled dipshit demographic.

I can't make a clear decision between the two. I am currently leaning toward Obama only because of his international policies, he domestic policies are just more half ass social projects. Mc Cain raddels(fuck i don't know how to spell that word) the saber to much for my liking, and I don't like his domestic plans.

Repeat
07-17-2008, 11:24 AM
I am not american and do not know anything about America, but I think Obama would have been a great President, better than Bush anyway cause all he cares about is war war war like you said which is bad. Poor Children dies everyday in Iraq because of Bush.

Enough said.

GrayFox
07-17-2008, 11:28 AM
I'm pretty sure this thread was made purley for the point of making a thread, since the guy hasn't passed off any advice on the subject to us.

Red
07-17-2008, 11:31 AM
Slavic:

So because McCain isn't fiscally conservative enough you're going to vote for Obama?


You'd prefer a fiscal conservative, why the hell vote for Obama, he's about as far from that as possible, that's the one thing we can be sure about him.

As for his "international policies", what the hell would that be?

Slavic
07-17-2008, 04:53 PM
Slavic:

So because McCain isn't fiscally conservative enough you're going to vote for Obama?


You'd prefer a fiscal conservative, why the hell vote for Obama, he's about as far from that as possible, that's the one thing we can be sure about him.

As for his "international policies", what the hell would that be?

By international policies I was referring to his willingness to open talks with nations that we have conflicting view points with. I am concerned about Mc Cain's hardline view with Iran and other countries of similar natures. I fear more hostilities with Iran with a Mc Cain presidency. I'd take what ever backwards program Obama wants to install at home over war with Iran.

TimTaylor
07-17-2008, 10:40 PM
Most of Obama supporters are mindless drones who have absolutely no idea what he will do if he gets into office. Like demonstrated here, I had many of these arguments. Some guy on this one website worshiped Obama. He said and I quote "Obama is our future, he will bring hope and change to the USA".

Then I asked him "What will he change?"

He responded with "Dunno, he will make the country better".

Now, lets review some of Obama's campaigns. He stated he will take the troops out of Iraq if elected.

Now lets see McCain's campaign. He stated the troops will have to stay in Iraq as the government will not pull them out because we have responsibilities.

After many people confronted Obama about this, he began to quickly change his campaign around, stating "I will only pull some troops out at a time".

Then lets go on about his church, Obama claims he never heard his pastor discriminate races. Which I find it extremely hard to believe seeing as they even have earlier footage of him discriminating whites before the campaigns.

So guys, who do you want? A dishonest, unrealistic president who might favor blacks over other races?

Or a honest realistic president, but also old.

I am not saying that Obama will be a disaster, he can be very good. But my votes are towards McCain. But all these people are voting for Obama because "Everyone is doing it".

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-17-2008, 11:24 PM
I am not saying that Obama will be a disaster, he can be very good. But my votes are towards McCain. But all these people are voting for Obama because "Everyone is doing it".


"Everyone Is Doing It" Woo lol, that Bring Back Some Bad Memories.

Slavic
07-17-2008, 11:25 PM
Most of Obama supporters are mindless drones who have absolutely no idea what he will do if he gets into office. Like demonstrated here, I had many of these arguments. Some guy on this one website worshiped Obama. He said and I quote "Obama is our future, he will bring hope and change to the USA".

Then I asked him "What will he change?"

He responded with "Dunno, he will make the country better".

Now, lets review some of Obama's campaigns. He stated he will take the troops out of Iraq if elected.

Now lets see McCain's campaign. He stated the troops will have to stay in Iraq as the government will not pull them out because we have responsibilities.

After many people confronted Obama about this, he began to quickly change his campaign around, stating "I will only pull some troops out at a time".

Then lets go on about his church, Obama claims he never heard his pastor discriminate races. Which I find it extremely hard to believe seeing as they even have earlier footage of him discriminating whites before the campaigns.

So guys, who do you want? A dishonest, unrealistic president who might favor blacks over other races?

Or a honest realistic president, but also old.

I am not saying that Obama will be a disaster, he can be very good. But my votes are towards McCain. But all these people are voting for Obama because "Everyone is doing it".

I'd have to agree that Obama obviously hasn't shown the public any solid plan at all about his domestic policies. We can only guess that it is more budget drying social programs.

Just because Obama's policy aren't clear doesn't make McCain's any clearer. McCain has in the past spoken out against water boarding and other inhumane methods of torture, but when a bill comes up prohibiting those things he is so strongly against, he votes against it. McCain has also flopped on the famous Bush tax cuts. Early in the GOP running McCain was constantly bashed by fellow GOP nominees for voting twice against the tax cuts. Strangely though now that he won the nomination he wants to make the tax cuts permanent. Not exactly holding on to his principles.

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-17-2008, 11:35 PM
I'd have to agree that Obama obviously hasn't shown the public any solid plan at all about his domestic policies. We can only guess that it is more budget drying social programs.

Just because Obama's policy aren't clear doesn't make McCain's any clearer. McCain has in the past spoken out against water boarding and other inhumane methods of torture, but when a bill comes up prohibiting those things he is so strongly against, he votes against it. McCain has also flopped on the famous Bush tax cuts. Early in the GOP running McCain was constantly bashed by fellow GOP nominees for voting twice against the tax cuts. Strangely though now that he won the nomination he wants to make the tax cuts permanent. Not exactly holding on to his principles.

I Believe The Bill You Were Talking About Was Also Loaded With Porkbarrel Spending And SInce That Is Pretty Much The Base Of His Campaign He Decided To Vote Against It.

And For The Two Tax Cuts, McCain Was Strongly In Support Of Them So Long As They Were Passed With Spending Cuts To Help Balance The Budget, And Since They Werent He Voted Against Them, But Now That They Are Passed Anyways He Supports Them Because He Plans Spending Cuts To offset Them.

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-18-2008, 05:50 AM
It's a hard decision. A buffoon who's no idea what's going on outside his circle of fancy ad slogan advisers or a warmongering old coot.

:001_huh:

Always Go With The Old Coot, Clear Choice.
If You Want Our White House Lawn To Be Perfect And Free From Those Pesky Teenagers There Is Only One Man To Elect.

Dracula
07-18-2008, 09:01 AM
McCain all the way

Bill Smauz
07-18-2008, 09:59 AM
Obama - Young People

McCain - Older People

The young people want change and all that and want hard well worked money to go all to poor lazy people who think they're special and deserve money even though they don't work - Democrat

People who work hard get to make money and people should get jobs - Republic

McCain

Red
07-18-2008, 10:23 AM
annoy a liberal, work hard and be happy

PotshotPolka
07-18-2008, 11:04 AM
WWJD
What Would andrew Jackson Do?

suricruise
07-18-2008, 01:04 PM
I listen to a radio show every day, and it's talk radio. The host really does not like Republicans at all. And really does not like Bush

This guy from day one said he loved Obama and put his full support behind him. And he would always agree with Obama that we need change. Well now that Obama has won his partys vote this talk show host has started to say "Well what is the change?" And now Obama has started to flip on some of the things he said before he won the vote.

So die hard Obama fans are starting to see this guy does not really stand for anything. So these die hard fans are starting to turn on him. And I think more and more are going to see that his guy has no clue what he stands for. And that he is just a cleaver Marketing tool.

Yes Mccain has a few things that most dont like. But we all know what the guy stands for. We know what we are getting. We can't say the same about Obama.

PotshotPolka
07-18-2008, 01:08 PM
I don't know what either stands for, besides a no-holds-bar fight to the finish for getting their names published in American history textbooks for the rest of the country's history.

Red
07-18-2008, 01:26 PM
Suri: I didn't think Air America still existed, or that there were liberal Talk Radio hosts out there still making money.

suricruise
07-18-2008, 01:30 PM
Suri: I didn't think Air America still existed, or that there were liberal Talk Radio hosts out there still making money.

Oh SNAP! ;) Nice. This radio show is always bashing Bush and the Gov Florida has. Mr.Tan Man.
http://www.floridasac.org/images/CharlieCrist_sm3.jpg

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-18-2008, 04:05 PM
Oh SNAP! ;) Nice. This radio show is always bashing Bush and the Gov Florida has. Mr.Tan Man.
http://www.floridasac.org/images/CharlieCrist_sm3.jpg

Hey, I Find His Tan Quite Awesome, If You Are Gonna Pick On Someone For A Lame Tan Pick On That Lady From All Those Pictures Whose Skins Is Almost Falling Off From Tanning.

Red
07-18-2008, 05:10 PM
I need a tan

Repeat
07-18-2008, 05:34 PM
I need a drink.

That makes two of us.

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-18-2008, 06:06 PM
That makes two of us.

Three, Now It's A Party :partydance::partydance::partydance:

Trip
07-29-2008, 08:38 AM
mccain.

Daze
07-29-2008, 10:42 AM
gordon brown ftw

tehsnipes
07-29-2008, 06:16 PM
OBAMA 08'

Well the fact that my family was forced to flea because of Communism/Socialism's spread in Asia and it's killing of some of my family is a very real factor in my attitudes towards it, and towards current leaders who are proponents of its ideologies, even if their supporters are no overtly aware of it.

I also have friends whose families came to this country because of similar circumstances (red governments). One of those of course being legal, different countries, same reasons.

Some of us learn from History and use it shape our opinions for the present and future, as such I don't want a leader who wants to steer us in that direction.

You see too much in black and white Tampon. Socialism and communism are both ideologies. It is the respective government who is responsible for that. Socialism/Communism didn't kill your family, the government of your country did. You say Obama wants to steer us to Communism? You've been watching too much Fox News pal. He has no Communist tendencies so stop bringing up erroneous shit. If you hate all Socialism then you hate almost all European countries, China, Russia, Vietnam etc. Socialism is not bad at all, its used for universal healthcare in the European Union. You want Universal Healthcare but hate socialism? If you didn't factor all the BS and smears and looked only at policy, you can clearly see Obama is a superior candidate than McCain.

I am a moderate, I have nothing against conservatives. But the extreme gun-hugging, bible waving, right wing disgusts me. Spreading all the smears @ Obama and blaming Liberals for trying to "RUIN" the country and that they are selling us out to Commies.

The corruption in Bush's administration is off the scale. Look at the latest Justice Dept. hiring fiasco. Here's a good example of your 2nd amendment being put to good use. http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/29/shooting.witness/

You say Obama has no clear plan, the only plan McCain made clear is that he's gonna stay in Iraq for 100 more years and that we should wipe Iran off the face of the planet w/o the use of diplomacy first. Hooray for warmongerers

Red
07-29-2008, 06:56 PM
I do hate Europe's social/fiscal policies, that universal healthcare isn't free, you have to pay taxes out the ass for it.

I have uncles and a grand parent living in France, my Uncle pays 50% tax because he makes over 50,000 euros. Fuck, I'm a French/European Citizen for crying out loud.

I don't watch FOX news, or any TV news Pal. I don't want universal healthcare, where the hell did I say I did.

Please show me Obama's "policy". Liberal policy now includes banning fast food restaurants from opening up new stores in Southern LA because it's too unhealthy and San Fransisco banning plastic shopping bags, seriously what the fuck. It's the tolerance of little erosion like this that are a danger.

I in no way think the current administration is a glimmering shining example of a model government, but I'll take it over Obama's administration. I can't even begin to fathom what the new Supreme court under Obamas appointing would do.

As for the 2nd Ammendment link, maybe if someone else in that congregation was armed they could have taken him down, but of course it was a more liberal group, so there you go.

As for staying in Iraq for 100 years, I see no problem with that, setting up a permanent base would be good strategically, much the same as we have done in Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Philippines etc etc. Staying in a country doesn't mean having troops patrolling the streets in tanks, it means setting up a presence/base that serves as a good strategic point.

So please, I'll take the war Mongering McCain over someone who spent much of his college/post college years around racists, thinly veiled communists and straight up terrorists (hello William Ayers).

I need more beer.

-A right-wing gun-hugging agnostic Eurasian.

Slavic
07-30-2008, 07:55 AM
I do hate Europe's social/fiscal policies, that universal healthcare isn't free, you have to pay taxes out the ass for it.

I have uncles and a grand parent living in France, my Uncle pays 50% tax because he makes over 50,000 euros. Fuck, I'm a French/European Citizen for crying out loud.

I don't watch FOX news, or any TV news Pal. I don't want universal healthcare, where the hell did I say I did.

Please show me Obama's "policy". Liberal policy now includes banning fast food restaurants from opening up new stores in Southern LA because it's too unhealthy and San Fransisco banning plastic shopping bags, seriously what the fuck. It's the tolerance of little erosion like this that are a danger.

I in no way think the current administration is a glimmering shining example of a model government, but I'll take it over Obama's administration. I can't even begin to fathom what the new Supreme court under Obamas appointing would do.

As for the 2nd Ammendment link, maybe if someone else in that congregation was armed they could have taken him down, but of course it was a more liberal group, so there you go.

As for staying in Iraq for 100 years, I see no problem with that, setting up a permanent base would be good strategically, much the same as we have done in Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Philippines etc etc. Staying in a country doesn't mean having troops patrolling the streets in tanks, it means setting up a presence/base that serves as a good strategic point.

So please, I'll take the war Mongering McCain over someone who spent much of his college/post college years around racists, thinly veiled communists and straight up terrorists (hello William Ayers).

I need more beer.

-A right-wing gun-hugging agnostic Eurasian.

damn you Eurasians

How things are going I'm probably going to do a write in for Ron Paul.

@tehsnipes Although our Democrats are hardly left wing compared to most left wing parties in the world, they do have socialist tendencies. The universal health care plan is an extremely socialist policy. If such a policy passes, I'm gonna have to spend more tax money on others' health care insurance who should be spending it themselves. Inform yourself. (http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx)

Repeat
07-30-2008, 08:32 AM
First of all, socialism and universal healthcare are two ideas that I find absolutely ridiculous. The government is NOT YOUR DADDY. It was not formed to hold your hand and put food on the table -- though through liberalistic idealogies and actions we get closer to becoming a socialist country every day. It's not a few huge changes, but rather many many small changes. I read an article that compared our progressive change towards socialism to catching wild pigs. It's a phenomenal example. Does anyone know how to catch wild pigs? Apparently, the easiest way is to put some corn in the woods around where you know they are. They'll come and eat it and leave. If you keep putting the corn there, they keep coming back. Eventually they come looking for the corn every day. Once this happens, you put one side of a fence up, and put the corn near it. They get used to it. Then you add another side, until they get used to that, happily eating their corn. Rinse and repeat until you have a full fenced in area, but leave the gate open. When they go in for the corn, that one last time, you slam the gate shut. You've captured them. The pigs freak out, running around, but eventually just go back to eating the corn. They've lost their freedom and can only do what their master (in our case the government) wants them to do. They become so used to being captives that they forget how to forage for food on their own.

The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms - just a little at a time.

I am a firm believer that every man is responsible for his own well-being. If you work hard, make good choices and live inside your means, then you should be just fine. In the neighborhood my college apartment is in, a family lives behind us. I walk past their house every day on my way to classes. What I see amazes me -- a filthy junk-ridden yard littered with more beer bottles and cans than the most party-hardy frat house. Quite often I hear them bitching about how their lives suck and they have no money. They don't have jobs. Instead, they sit in their front yard drinking fucking beer all day long and half into the night. Go out and get a job, assholes. They are PERFECTLY capable of working. My college offers FREE tuition to anyone who works full time at the university. Get a job as a fucking janitor and get the free education (while making money) so you can make MORE money. Who pays for them to sit on their asses and drink beer though? The tax payer -- You and I. How is it fair that my hard-earned money goes to those lazy slackers? It's not! It's neither my responsibility to drag their dead weight along nor should it be.

Always remember that "A government big enough to give you everything that you want is big enough to take away everything that you have."

Slavic
07-30-2008, 08:54 AM
First of all, socialism and universal healthcare are two ideas that I find absolutely ridiculous. The government is NOT YOUR DADDY. It was not formed to hold your hand and put food on the table -- though through liberalistic idealogies and actions we get closer to becoming a socialist country every day. It's not a few huge changes, but rather many many small changes. I read an article that compared our progressive change towards socialism to catching wild pigs. It's a phenomenal example. Does anyone know how to catch wild pigs? Apparently, the easiest way is to put some corn in the woods around where you know they are. They'll come and eat it and leave. If you keep putting the corn there, they keep coming back. Eventually they come looking for the corn every day. Once this happens, you put one side of a fence up, and put the corn near it. They get used to it. Then you add another side, until they get used to that, happily eating their corn. Rinse and repeat until you have a full fenced in area, but leave the gate open. When they go in for the corn, that one last time, you slam the gate shut. You've captured them. The pigs freak out, running around, but eventually just go back to eating the corn. They've lost their freedom and can only do what their master (in our case the government) wants them to do. They become so used to being captives that they forget how to forage for food on their own.

The government keeps pushing us toward socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant crops (CRP), welfare, medicine, drugs, etc. while we continually lose our freedoms - just a little at a time.

I am a firm believer that every man is responsible for his own well-being. If you work hard, make good choices and live inside your means, then you should be just fine. In the neighborhood my college apartment is in, a family lives behind us. I walk past their house every day on my way to classes. What I see amazes me -- a filthy junk-ridden yard littered with more beer bottles and cans than the most party-hardy frat house. Quite often I hear them bitching about how their lives suck and they have no money. They don't have jobs. Instead, they sit in their front yard drinking fucking beer all day long and half into the night. Go out and get a job, assholes. They are PERFECTLY capable of working. My college offers FREE tuition to anyone who works full time at the university. Get a job as a fucking janitor and get the free education (while making money) so you can make MORE money. Who pays for them to sit on their asses and drink beer though? The tax payer -- You and I. How is it fair that my hard-earned money goes to those lazy slackers? It's not! It's neither my responsibility to drag their dead weight along nor should it be.

Always remember that "A government big enough to give you everything that you want is big enough to take away everything that you have."

Protection from foreign threats
Protection from domestic threats

Thats really all a central government should be allowed to do. The rest should be left to small semi-independent county and township governorships to manage. Policies enacted at the county level or lower reflects a truer form of democracy. I should not have to be subjected to policies formed by people from other parts of the country that have no interest in my county's well being.

Repeat
07-30-2008, 08:58 AM
Protection from foreign threats
Protection from domestic threats

Thats really all a central government should be allowed to do. The rest should be left to small semi-independent county and township governorships to manage. Policies enacted at the county level or lower reflects a truer form of democracy. I should not have to be subjected to policies formed by people from other parts of the country that have no interest in my county's well being.

That's exactly what this country is supposed to be -- but those ideals and guidelines have been so far perverted that when the proverbial gate is slammed shut that not many will notice.

Red
07-30-2008, 10:39 AM
Amen to both of you.

As our own Declaration of Independence states, we all have the right to "Life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness "

There's no money back guarantee on being an American. You have every right to try and get your slice of the pie, and if you fuck up you can declare bankruptcy and start over again, do you know how rare that is in this world to be able to start over again like that?

The notion that someone how we are supposed to be guaranteed money, food, housing etc etc without earning it goes against the principles that this country was founded on.

I'm tired of people and our own government looking to Europe as an example to MAKING new law. "Oh Europe does it, so it's okay for us too". Fuck no, people left Europe to come here to get away from their policies, to EARN and WORK hard to start a new life for their family, and now the guilt ridden 3rd, 4th, 5th generation children of these immigrants has forgotten why their families came here in the first place and have become memorized by the promise of a European utopian ideal that provides shelter/housing/food/healthcare for all at the expense of those that work hard. Shit, just look at how popular Obama is in Europe, that should tell you something.

America didn't become as powerful and successful and hated as it is through self-pity, it worked its ass off to get to where it is today, and people all around the world hate/envy us for it.

Yet we still have millions of people trying to come to America to try and get their piece of the action every year.

Maybe the US can set up an exchange program with Europe? We'll ship you all our unemployed parasites for your hard workers.

2 Dwarves, 1 Coat
07-31-2008, 01:41 AM
Mccain is an idiot. Does anyone watch Glenn Beck, Anderson Cooper, or any other news shows centered around politics?
Mccain doesnt know how much gas costs! Other people pump his gas. Do you really belive he knows what hes doing, when he doesnt even know the price of gas, a major issue in the US? Really.

BOOWY
07-31-2008, 07:59 AM
McCain looks like a putz. Also, his entire campaign right now is to bash Obama which to me says a lot about his character. I wouldn't want someone who compares Obama to Paris Hilton and Britney Spears running my country.

Red
07-31-2008, 08:06 AM
Mccain is an idiot. Does anyone watch Glenn Beck, Anderson Cooper, or any other news shows centered around politics?
Mccain doesnt know how much gas costs! Other people pump his gas. Do you really belive he knows what hes doing, when he doesnt even know the price of gas, a major issue in the US? Really.

Okay, and Obama said that gas prices going up wasn't a bad thing, he only wishes it didn't happen so fast.

How the hell is that better, he's saying he's glad prices went up.

Omar
07-31-2008, 08:26 AM
I am not american and do not know anything about America, but I think Obama would have been a great President, better than Bush anyway cause all he cares about is war war war like you said which is bad. Poor Children dies everyday in Iraq because of Bush.

yeah :( when i was in egypt i talked to one of my relative (my age) he was like "so when did u leave iraq" i said that i left 2001 then he was like "dude, you have not seen shit" his friends died their, he even saw them die, some explosion some car crash :,(

Repeat
07-31-2008, 12:53 PM
yeah :( when i was in egypt i talked to one of my relative (my age) he was like "so when did u leave iraq" i said that i left 2001 then he was like "dude, you have not seen shit" his friends died their, he even saw them die, some explosion some car crash :,(

Tell your countrymen to stop homicide bombing their own people and maybe that'd help out a bit...

*Edit* I do feel for you and your family having to see all of that. That must be tough.

Red
07-31-2008, 01:09 PM
Tell your countrymen to stop homicide bombing their own people and maybe that'd help out a bit...


That would make sense, but it's easier to blame Bush.

Joeytron
07-31-2008, 05:55 PM
In all honesty, I really don't place my trust or hope in any politicians. Most of what we hear nowadays is designed to be exactly what we want to hear. Obama says alot of things that I agree with, but then again change can be scary when it gets going. McCain honestly just scares the shit out of me. I don't want to be drafted in a few years to go fight in his Christian crusade. Talk is cheap, and there is alot of bullshit that flys around politics. The real bullshit, in my opinion, is that only the rich can lead in this country. Money corrupts people, power corrupts people. I'm not saying all politicians are the devil, im just saying our system has become pretty flawed.

Repeat
07-31-2008, 06:07 PM
In all honesty, I really don't place my trust or hope in any politicians. Most of what we hear nowadays is designed to be exactly what we want to hear. Obama says alot of things that I agree with, but then again change can be scary when it gets going. McCain honestly just scares the shit out of me. I don't want to be drafted in a few years to go fight in his Christian crusade. Talk is cheap, and there is alot of bullshit that flys around politics. The real bullshit, in my opinion, is that only the rich can lead in this country. Money corrupts people, power corrupts people. I'm not saying all politicians are the devil, im just saying our system has become pretty flawed.

LOL!


There will not be a draft because of the middle east. No chance.


Now if China/Russia start some shit up, that might be a different story. But don't worry about a "Christian Crusade" my friend. That's not going to happen.

Also, in regards to "the rich running the country"... The "rich" people as you call them also happen to be the "educated" people in this country. They didn't stumble upon their wealth -- they earned it. Earning what you want is what this country is based on, and people seem to forget it. Which would I rather have... An educated law maker from an Ivy-League School or a janitor who didn't finish 6th grade... not really a hard decision there... hmmm... I'm gonna go with the college-educated choice.

Most politicians take a CUT to their income when they go to Capital Hill -- they'd make MUCH more money in the private sector.

Slavic
07-31-2008, 11:15 PM
In all honesty, I really don't place my trust or hope in any politicians. Most of what we hear nowadays is designed to be exactly what we want to hear. Obama says alot of things that I agree with, but then again change can be scary when it gets going. McCain honestly just scares the shit out of me. I don't want to be drafted in a few years to go fight in his Christian crusade. Talk is cheap, and there is alot of bullshit that flys around politics. The real bullshit, in my opinion, is that only the rich can lead in this country. Money corrupts people, power corrupts people. I'm not saying all politicians are the devil, im just saying our system has become pretty flawed.

From my observations, self made millions tend to be more honest then upper class who have to depend on interest group donations. A man who builds himself up from nothing is only dependent on himself. Those who are born of luxury or interest groups depends on others.

LegalSmash
08-01-2008, 12:10 AM
Catholic-baby-Jesus-Christ, I'm gone for a few days and I miss some fun-tard postings to respond to.

Now, before I concur with Repeat, Red and part of Slavic: I'll address several things in kind:

Tehsnipes: Have you ever lived under a socialist regime from childhood to adulthood, or for that matter, actually been impacted by the social policies? If the answer to this is no, and your knowledge of Socialism and Communism comes from a professor, a book, or some offended-islamic-groupthink-angst, do everyone a favor and stop typing. Red doesnt see it in black and white, but rather for what it is... communism and socialism IS dangerous, counterproductive and counterintuitive to human nature, its oppressive to anyone disagreeing with the status quo, and the economic policies squash any desire to seek opportunity because there is no upward mobility. I know this because I still have family that tries to get over here, EVERY YEAR.

The guy about the draft:

Our military is an all volunteer force... drafts put lots of unmotivated, untrained draftee conscripts into the force, and it shoots the casualty counts up like crazy, this is why Vietnam had a 58K count... a LOT of those deaths were due to avoidable injuries. We have only suffered 4K deaths in 5 years there have been 16000 injuries, only about which a quarter are debilitating enough to warrant award of disability. We are NOT doing bad. There won't be a draft again without a congressional declaration of war, Congress needs to specifically enact it under the current selective service statute... meaning, if there is a draft, you are going to have to blame it on the congressman, because no one else could force it but them.

BTW, your "Christian crusade" Crusade comment made you sound like an ignorant fucktard, you should go read about the crusades, and notice that there was no "well pay for ALL your rebuilding offered from the pope or the crusader states to damascus or the ayyubids. Go read a book before you make dumbass comments.

As for talk is cheap, tell that to Obama, who keeps begging for change, but has offered absolutely nothing towards an actual plan. He sounds like a wino. If you are going to plug that at mccain, you should consider that at the least he has a record to show that he has at some point said something. So far obama has some commercials, the preacher, and his mouth party with the media, that has generally let him slide for everything him and his wife have said.


As for the rich leading the country, go look up Harry S. Truman, Bill Clinton, Andrew Johnson were all born into poverty, and through hard work and honest dedication to their careers throughout their lifetimes rose to the position. The upper class has an advantage monetarily, but pure personableness will win over finances on campaigns... look at Truman v. Dewey in the 40s. Its humorous to me how often people immediately retreat to "itz cuz hes rich gaiz"... no its not, its because he came from a family that brought him up to understand the benefit of whatever he needed to have to get to that pinnacle in life.

Omar, I reiterate what repeat and red said regarding your comments.




Universal healthcare is a fundamentally flawed idea for several reasons:

Healthcare, in general is used on an AS NEED basis, you don't go to the doctor for shits and giggles, you go because you are in need of a medic, its an "oops" event. A person has the option of buying health care insurance in this country if they so choose to, and have a less expensive "oops" moment. Its called planning for a fortuitous event. Many people go to the doctor when they need to, and pay for that event. People buy insurance for personal security... "warm feelings" as I would put it. This being said, many people spend a portion of their paychecks to cover themselves "in case" shit happens. Many people in this country refuse to buy health insurance, citing the contribution as more than they WANT to pay.... well, guess what prick? The root canals are 100 on insurance and 1400 without.... the premium is 20 per week, 40 per paycheck. Do the math.

Universal healthcare would provide this same protection, which people pay for at a premium as "default" at a cost to everyone else... this is problematic because the people that are already receiving healthcare are essentially double paying for the same service (despite not using the govt version), in addition to having to pay for someone else to receive, at their expense, a service that they themselves pay for... We call this robbery, a forced taking of personal property of another.

"FREE" healthcare will not by any means make anyone take more responsibility for their own wellbeing but rather, may make people more careless: If you have to pay MORE for insurance because you are a disgusting 400 lb gastropod sitting in an office heave-breathing and eating peanuts all day, you SHOULD pay a premium for healthcare, because your tubby ass is going to NEED more. Similarly, smokers, druggies, chronic drunkards, and X-treme athletes ALL carry higher risks than usual to sustain bodily injuries that require emergency, triage, or long term care... All at the expense of workers already paying fed income, in some cases state income, FICA, Medicare, and ad Valorem taxes... its excessive, and honestly, its abusive... It is fundamentally unfair to overburden further persons to provide a largely intentionally uninsured group something they are not willing to pay for.

The poor people argument: The poor have medicaid, free clinics, emergency rooms, and in general doctor's affirmative duties and hipocratic oaths to save lives. The argument that they are unable to cover themselves is rather shaky... they WILL get covered, and because they are already poor, the hospital writes their debt off as "bad debt" and their credit EVENTUALLY rights itself post bankruptcy, on the other hand, average middle class joe will get chased by the hospital, because hes got a little something like equity in a house... and unless you are in FL, that deficiency judgment sought by the hospital may leave you living in your trunk.

The govt cant run anything right... and making the program "bigger and better" is not necessarily more likely to make the situation better, social security administration is a perfect example of this. Everythng takes forever, nothing comes on time, and by the time they get to you, the claimant is either dead, septic, or in dire need of hospice.

Healthcare is not a right, its not even a privilege, its fucking service, like the chinese chick that does Tawkalita's nails for 30 a week, (which she could put towards HC mind you), doctors are like car mechanics. As long as we are giving out free shit, lets also give out free tit jobs and abortions for all.

Italian Jew
08-01-2008, 12:30 AM
but what about the bar?????


:rlol:



However, despite having been through this debate with you among just about all the topics you mentioned, I would say true socialism is no more of a danger than our own government. Keep in mind, socialism calls for a democratic control over things meaning the people decide, not a dictator. Claiming that socialism is the cause of the problem is incorrect because it is the same as blaming the gun instead of the person pulling the trigger in a shooting. Socialism was designed as a cooperative system, not a competitive one. Those dictators who you and Red so fanatically hate have more in common with the Right than the Left, so they cannot be correctly determined as socialists.

However, socialism is not what I would think to be the best system. The best would be some form of monarchy, which is not to be confused with tyranny. Monarchs rule for their people while tyrants rule for themselves. The problem with this is that you will never have a good enough supply of true monarchs. Its success mirrors the fairy tale that is socialism because people always manage to become too self centered and concerned about their own survival. In socialism, the masses would come to that conclusion as in a monarchy, the good monarch may die, but the tyrant may take his place thus ending proper rule of the position. We have to settle for as much middle ground as possible between the two, which proves inefficient. It is less of a gamble between the two sides because you are not betting all your chips either way, but there is only so much you can do before one thing slows you down. If it is something good for a country, it may be slowed down by opposition who feel otherwise however at the same time a bad proposition can just as equally be slowed down.

I can only hope and think about what might be the best, but like I said, it is usually a fairy tale to think of humans acting like they should. Human nature is more complex than you might think. It is more than just competition or cooperation. It is something in the middle because we cannot decide upon what we are. We can only decide what we should be.

Anyways, that's my little philosophizing rant for the day. I just drank a Mountain Dew, so it flows like a river...as does another side effect of the beverage.

LegalSmash
08-01-2008, 01:03 AM
but what about the bar?????


:rlol:


Thanks for asking. I think it went as good as it could go. It was insane, truly insane. I hope I passed. The test was like rupaul on PCP with a chainsaw in a room full of john cusacks, and rupaul is all sex crazed and retard strong.

Italian Jew
08-01-2008, 01:20 AM
So you get to wait around for a month or two (or however long it takes to get the results back)...

sounds stressful

Better shoot some zombies in the meantime




Maybe we can share your experiences by having the chainsaw wielding zombie have a Rupaul skin while we wear Cusack skins! The zombie already moves as if its on PCP.

:partydance:

phatman76
08-01-2008, 02:11 AM
I agree that universal healthcare is a bad idea, and there are more reasons than what Legal pointed out. First, the costs can't be covered, even if the entire aggregate income of the entire top 5% of America was thrown at healthcare, It would barely cover the money the USG ALREADY spends on it (2 trillion), let alone the 15-20 trillion it would take for the USG would spend on universal care, (a conservative estimate, this 15-20 assumes NO bloating). Fiscally, healthcare cannot be covered by the USG EVER without us all giving well over half our pay checks to uncle sam and the nations debt still rocketing up.

Next, gov.t healthcare will limit choices patients have right now in the system and will increase the wait for routine surgeries and care. It can take months to reach the front of a line for a routine surgery in the UK that would take hours or days to get here under a decent HMO or PPO. The multi-trillion dollar insurance industry would also collapse, along with many private hospitals and virtually all private specialty-care centers (i.e. private practices specializing in very specific types of surgery or care).

Only one group will really benefit from universal healthcare in any real way -the uninsurable - people with conditions so serious or chronic that no private insurance practice would take them. Instead of fucking up the whole system for this small group, lets just make it easy for them. A liberal option would be to Legislate that all insurance companies must take an equal share of the uninsurable who can afford some basic fee, the uninsurable who are poor will just do what they do now - use gov.t money. A smarter, conservative choice would be to eliminate regulations by states on what an insurance policy must cover. Insurance in arkansas isn't half the price as New York because the air is cleaner, it's because the Arkansas gov.t doesn't require that the most basic plans cover things like chiropractics and orthodontics, like NY does.

You would be surprised how cheap a health insurance policy could be if you could buy a plan that just covers accidents and serious illness, where you would cover basic care like dental and regular drugs yourself.

2 Dwarves, 1 Coat
08-01-2008, 05:11 AM
Mccain, first off, supports bushes policys, and plans to continue them. The same policys that put the US in the crapper. I know, Obama has made some mistakes and said some stupid things, but I damn well dont want to sit through 4 more years of President Bush. And on a minor note, Mccain looks like an idiot.:thumbup:

Repeat
08-01-2008, 07:27 AM
Mccain, first off, supports bushes policys, and plans to continue them. The same policys that put the US in the crapper. I know, Obama has made some mistakes and said some stupid things, but I damn well dont want to sit through 4 more years of President Bush. And on a minor note, Mccain looks like an idiot.:thumbup:

On a major note, you are an idiot. It saddens me that you are old enough to vote...

If think that Obama will get this country out of 'the crapper' then you are sadly mistaken. Our economy is going to go to hell in a handbasket in a hurry. He will punish hard work more than it is already -- hardwork: something this country is founded on.

You probably support Obama because you want "change", but you don't know what this change is. Most people that support the upcoming 'Barackalypse' have no idea... They're lemmings who jump off the cliff because they see others doing it. LegalSmash said it best when he said that liberal party is a party of manic emotions and pipe dream ideals; liberals let their emotions cloud their judgment.

LegalSmash
08-01-2008, 07:55 AM
Mccain, first off, supports bushes policys, and plans to continue them. The same policys that put the US in the crapper. I know, Obama has made some mistakes and said some stupid things, but I damn well dont want to sit through 4 more years of President Bush. And on a minor note, Mccain looks like an idiot.:thumbup:

What policies exactly are you talking about? Iraq is not a policy, and running out is not only hugely irresponsible and dick but will serve to further destabilize an already unstable region.

Economics? There was a HUGE boom through the clinton years, and then a bust, Reagan got the country in total bust phase, caused by a combination of geopolitical ass-hattery and stagflation, Bushes' policy of tax cuts in general are a positive thing, the government does NOT need to be that big, and where you are trying to shrink the government you don't leave ALL that EXTRA money in its pockets. We had a bust in the bush years... thats not due to bush, but to shitty bank lending practices, giving people who cannot afford EVAR to pay back loans money they should have never had... (a primarily liberal practice, called burning teh monies). That is the natural flow of the economy... what did you think it was going to do, forever languish in paradise?

Social policy? Much of the country agrees with the man's views. Abortion, including post birth is generally tolerated in the majority of the country only due to supreme court precedent, not because people are all yippie, skippy happy at the concept of their state offering them. People in this country, barring NY, MASS, and CA are generally blue collar, socially conservative, and do not particularly care for abortion, gay marriage, etc. These are the same people that go to church on Sunday, join the army to get out of Frogballs, Arkansas and don't exactly feel all that comfortable with Hootie neither standing for the pledge or his wife's commentary on patriotism, his "BRACK PAOWAAH" minister, or (specifically in the black community) his newfangled tendency to ask "where be the dad's yo?!" for the sake of seeming a LITTLE more white friendly. If anyone has unabashedly played the race card in this country, its him. Bill Cosby has EARNED the right to say such things, being from Jim Crow america, and seeing the struggle he went through wasted due to hip hop, baggy clothing, gold teeth, and appearances on the Maury show. Barack was still a wet spot on the right inside front panel of his mom's tie-dye dashiki when this was going on. That kind of behavior serves to alienate barrack from a rather large portion of his voting bracket. Barack has not served in any capacity to the US in its armed forced... something that MANY people in those states will take issue with, especially when the alternative not only served, but openly supports the operations that many of their own children are a part of.

Additionally, as to other policies, such as the stem cell ban, if stem cells were going to be all the hot shit that the vocal, yet completely lacking in evidence to support their claim-leftard section of the science academies say it would, do you not think Merck, Pfizer, and Bayer would have lobbied their balls off to get that measure passed? No profitability no applicability means no real use except to provide excuse to have even MOAR abortions.

Also, realize that the president, does not make laws by himself, but often, congress makes them and he signs them... executive orders and agreements do NOT hold the same force of law as congressionally legislated law. Yet, despite the fact that we have had a predominantly democrat congress the past year and a half, they have done jack diddly shit to change anything. Congress can basically overrule the president's orders and agreements.... he cannot constitutionally impound disbursed, apportioned funds... basically they have no one to blame but themselves, because all they have done is hemmed, hawed, made commercials, and watch their rating tumble like a group of autistic kids down some stairs.

Hootie's constant change in policy concepts from "i would not vote for Iraq, Lol", "ill start some shit with Iran", we want Europe (soon to be Eurabia) help with WOT, FICA tax increase pipedream, makes me think that he has no earthly clue as to WTF he's going to do if he actually is put in the white house. Additionally, his complete lack of senatorial experience, voting records that show any other leaning than a severe case of leftism are all conveniently absent... because he has none.

While McCain may not be my ideal choice, i'd pick centrist foppery over unabashed, non-directional leftism any day.

Red
08-01-2008, 10:15 AM
Mccain, first off, supports bushes policys, and plans to continue them. The same policys that put the US in the crapper. I know, Obama has made some mistakes and said some stupid things, but I damn well dont want to sit through 4 more years of President Bush. And on a minor note, Mccain looks like an idiot.:thumbup:

Yes, because we went into Iraq and stayed there all on Bush's whim. Congress didn't have anything to do with it. /sarcasm

Even the democrat controlled congress (most of whom voted to go IN TO Iraq) who ran and WON on a platform of "we'll get us out of Iraq" have failed to get us out of Iraq. Yet it doesn't matter because their supporters have the memory of a pile of shit.

On another note, July had the lowest casualties since we went into Iraq.

On a minor note, stating someone looks like an Idiot and basing your votes on that is idiotic. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: jackass

Itch
08-01-2008, 10:20 AM
Yes, because we went into Iraq and stayed there all on Bush's whim. Congress didn't have anything to do with it. /sarcasm

Even the democrat controlled congress (most of whom voted to go IN TO Iraq) who ran and WON on a platform of "we'll get us out of Iraq" have failed to get us out of Iraq. Yet it doesn't matter because their supporters have the memory of a pile of shit.

On another note, July had the lowest casualties since we went into Iraq.

On a minor note, stating someone looks like an Idiot and basing your votes on that is idiotic. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: jackass

QFT

Joeytron
08-01-2008, 03:51 PM
The guy about the draft:

Our military is an all volunteer force... drafts put lots of unmotivated, untrained draftee conscripts into the force, and it shoots the casualty counts up like crazy, this is why Vietnam had a 58K count... a LOT of those deaths were due to avoidable injuries. We have only suffered 4K deaths in 5 years there have been 16000 injuries, only about which a quarter are debilitating enough to warrant award of disability. We are NOT doing bad. There won't be a draft again without a congressional declaration of war, Congress needs to specifically enact it under the current selective service statute... meaning, if there is a draft, you are going to have to blame it on the congressman, because no one else could force it but them.

BTW, your "Christian crusade" Crusade comment made you sound like an ignorant fucktard, you should go read about the crusades, and notice that there was no "well pay for ALL your rebuilding offered from the pope or the crusader states to damascus or the ayyubids. Go read a book before you make dumbass comments.

As for talk is cheap, tell that to Obama, who keeps begging for change, but has offered absolutely nothing towards an actual plan. He sounds like a wino. If you are going to plug that at mccain, you should consider that at the least he has a record to show that he has at some point said something. So far obama has some commercials, the preacher, and his mouth party with the media, that has generally let him slide for everything him and his wife have said.


As for the rich leading the country, go look up Harry S. Truman, Bill Clinton, Andrew Johnson were all born into poverty, and through hard work and honest dedication to their careers throughout their lifetimes rose to the position. The upper class has an advantage monetarily, but pure personableness will win over finances on campaigns... look at Truman v. Dewey in the 40s. Its humorous to me how often people immediately retreat to "itz cuz hes rich gaiz"... no its not, its because he came from a family that brought him up to understand the benefit of whatever he needed to have to get to that pinnacle in life.

Omar, I reiterate what repeat and red said regarding your comments.


I apologize, the "Christian Crusade" comment I made was word vomit. You have to understand that I just see almost all violence as unnecessary and sometimes I get upset when I see it justified. When I look at the presidential campaign I find myself divided. I agree with a lot of what you say about Obama. The blind trust and support that people give to him is very scary. On the other hand, I don't think I could give my vote to McCain. He says "I'm sorry to tell you, there's going to be other wars. We will never surrender but there will be other wars." I don't believe there needs to be, and I do not believe in the romanticizing of war. I apologize, I didn't mean to offend anybody if I did.

WTFBBQ_Z0MB13
08-01-2008, 05:31 PM
Obama, I'm a conservative Democrat. He supports a lot of the same Ideals I do. He is a Democrat, and so am I, and I agree with his basic principles. Thats that, if I was republican I would support McCain. And no I'm not influenced by my parents, one of them is a demo,and the other is a republican.

Red
08-01-2008, 05:34 PM
Obama, I'm a conservative Democrat

http://www.rootology.com/images/exploding_head.jpg



And no I'm not influenced by my parents, one of them is a demo,and the other is a republican.

You sure? You said you're a conservative democrat, and your parents are one of each.

2 Dwarves, 1 Coat
08-02-2008, 10:24 AM
Obama, I'm a conservative Democrat. He supports a lot of the same Ideals I do. He is a Democrat, and so am I, and I agree with his basic principles. Thats that, if I was republican I would support McCain. And no I'm not influenced by my parents, one of them is a demo,and the other is a republican.


I feel the same way, if i was republican, id problebly support Mccain seeing as id support the same ideals he does, but im a democrat, so its obvious that i stand more with obama. Also, i dont vote, its useless since (i believe) all elections are rigged.

2 Dwarves, 1 Coat
08-02-2008, 10:34 AM
I dont know, maybe more people would support Mccain if the media wasnt against him?

TimTaylor
08-02-2008, 12:45 PM
I dont know, maybe more people would support Mccain if the media wasnt against him?

This is the same media that favors celebrities over the real issues in this world.

I bet none of you knew what Obama did recently, he asked to go to Iraq to be with the troops. However he was told he COULD go to Iraq, however he could not bring the film crew for his campaign. Then he chose not to go.

Yeah, this is the man everyone wants, someone who sees the troops as propaganda for his campaign.

Slavic
08-02-2008, 01:52 PM
I feel the same way, if i was republican, id problebly support Mccain seeing as id support the same ideals he does, but im a democrat, so its obvious that i stand more with obama. Also, i dont vote, its useless since (i believe) all elections are rigged.

You honestly think that our election system is rigged? You are one political rights spoiled bastard. The USA is by far has one of the most open and accurate voting process, despite how bogged down and bloated it seems. Go live in some other "democracy" and see how much your vote counts there.

I also don't like people who's voting method is "party blind". They only vote for their party regardless of the person who is on the ticket. If your a Democrat would you vote someone in who has been found guilty in the past for taking bribes just because your a Democrat? Or if you found out your Republican runner liked to get shit faced and fondle random women, would you still vote for him because your a Republican.

You've can't just blindly follow a party.

LegalSmash
08-02-2008, 03:02 PM
I feel the same way, if i was republican, id problebly support Mccain seeing as id support the same ideals he does, but im a democrat, so its obvious that i stand more with obama. Also, i dont vote, its useless since (i believe) all elections are rigged.

Your belief is incorrect. If you believe that you should also believe what sayeth the lord Xenu

PotshotPolka
08-02-2008, 03:27 PM
I feel the same way, if i was republican, id problebly support Mccain seeing as id support the same ideals he does, but im a democrat, so its obvious that i stand more with obama. Also, i dont vote, its useless since (i believe) all elections are rigged.

You want to see rigged elections? Go take a stroll through Zimbabwe, some fucked jigsaw country in the Balkans and Russia while you're at it.

Repeat
08-02-2008, 04:16 PM
I feel the same way, if i was republican, id problebly support Mccain seeing as id support the same ideals he does, but im a democrat, so its obvious that i stand more with obama. Also, i dont vote, its useless since (i believe) all elections are rigged.

LOL

http://simpsonovi.comics.cz/media/Obrazky/WALL/images/PARANOID.JPG

They're out to get you too!

Slavic
08-02-2008, 07:06 PM
LOL

[IMG]http://simpsonovi.comics.cz/media/Obrazky/WALL/images/PARANOID.JPG[IMG]

They're out to get you too!

O SHIT!!! Double Posting.... Its a conspiracy.

Also the first Zimbabwe election was fairly accurate with Tsvangirai winning 48% of votes and Mugabe winning 43%. The scandal was when a second round of voting was called, there were numerous reports of Tsvangirai voters being beaten and arrested to make them vote for Mugabe. Tsvangirai pulled out of the second round because of this, and unsurprisingly Mugabe won like 86% in the next round.

Repeat
08-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Whoops!