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View Full Version : Sudan Leader Facing Genocide Charges



SpikedRocker
07-14-2008, 04:45 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/07/14/darfur.charges/index.html

Its nice to see international recognization of the Darfur problem, but international justice is hard to come by. ICC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court#Situations_before_the _Court) has 3 people from situations in Congo since 2004, 1 trial was stopped and 2 are just in hearings. I'm sure LegalSmash can fill us in on how international trials go.

LegalSmash
07-14-2008, 07:46 AM
Well, unless the person or country submits itself to the jurisdiction of the court, it likely won't have much effect. In order to be triable by a court, it has to have something called jurisdiction over you. The problem with international bodies is that the person at issue may just saw "LOL, you cant do anything to me bc you are not a court in my country". Its essentially a symbolic "conviction"

SpikedRocker
07-14-2008, 09:00 AM
And from what I've heard, thats what that guy is gonna do. Funny he said in an interview last year with Ann Curry (why did she get to do the interview is beyond me) with the guy and she asked him if the ICC got an indictment against someone would his country work with the ICC and get that person to trial, and he said yes. I don't understand politics that well, but African politics are one big clusterfuck. Seems if you win a war you become head of state, till theres a coup then that person becomes head of state. It seems to me they haven't left their tribal ways. They say the first human came from Africa...well then I am curious why they aren't none the wiser when it comes to politics, humanitarianism, and not the "leaders of the world" like Europe, Russia, and the US have claimed to be.

LegalSmash
07-14-2008, 10:19 AM
Seems if you win a war you become head of state, till theres a coup then that person becomes head of state. It seems to me they haven't left their tribal ways. They say the first human came from Africa...well then I am curious why they aren't none the wiser when it comes to politics, humanitarianism, and not the "leaders of the world" like Europe, Russia, and the US have claimed to be.
__________________

Africa, truth be told was better under colonial rule. These people don't understand civilized government the way we do. A coup, forced takings, and suspending rules is what governs there.
If they really want to mess with that guy, SAS or CIA need to off him, because no "international criminal court" sentence is going to do anything to him. EVERYONE needs to agree in order to have something like nuremburg work again... and without sounding mean, to do that, the people being victimized need to be "worthwhile" to the rest of the world. Jews were in this position, because the groups of them being killed off by nazis were largely educated middle and upper class. The response post war was nearly immediate... nuremburg was in 46 I believe. Look on the other hand at Milosovik in Serbia... took nearly 6 years to get him to court and in the interim he died of a heart attack. What is in Serbia? Not the same thing as European jews in 1938, from what I understand.

People dont like to admit it, but there is a very specific price/cost/value that the civilized world places on victimized groups... if its not high enough no one is going to come together to do shit like ICC, or nuremburg.

BTW nuremburg wasnt completely successul either venezuela, brazil, and argentina granted shelter and anonymity to the germans that fled there...

PotshotPolka
07-14-2008, 10:37 AM
Africa, truth be told was better under colonial rule. These people don't understand civilized government the way we do. A coup, forced takings, and suspending rules is what governs there.
If they really want to mess with that guy, SAS or CIA need to off him, because no "international criminal court" sentence is going to do anything to him. EVERYONE needs to agree in order to have something like nuremburg work again... and without sounding mean, to do that, the people being victimized need to be "worthwhile" to the rest of the world. Jews were in this position, because the groups of them being killed off by nazis were largely educated middle and upper class. The response post war was nearly immediate... nuremburg was in 46 I believe. Look on the other hand at Milosovik in Serbia... took nearly 6 years to get him to court and in the interim he died of a heart attack. What is in Serbia? Not the same thing as European jews in 1938, from what I understand.

People dont like to admit it, but there is a very specific price/cost/value that the civilized world places on victimized groups... if its not high enough no one is going to come together to do shit like ICC, or nuremburg.

BTW nuremburg wasnt completely successul either venezuela, brazil, and argentina granted shelter and anonymity to the germans that fled there...

Congress said CIA aren't allowed to operate secret clandestine assassination missions that not even they know about anymore.
Dumbasses.

SpikedRocker
07-14-2008, 10:41 AM
BTW nuremburg wasnt completely successul either venezuela, brazil, and argentina granted shelter and anonymity to the germans that fled there...

And they are still hunting a few of them. I can't find the link but I read somewhere they did something to the arrest warrent for one of the nazi's still not caught. At this point I they are dead, but I think they'd like to find where they've been hiding all this time.

GrayFox
07-14-2008, 10:53 AM
It seems to me they haven't left their tribal ways. They say the first human came from Africa...

The first monkey-human came from there I believe. The transforming species traveled north to become the Neanderthals(sp?).

LegalSmash
07-14-2008, 11:03 AM
:partydance: africa LOL

LegalSmash
07-14-2008, 11:09 AM
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/c/cf/The_academic_community_frown_on_your_decision_afri ca_guns.jpg

Slavic
07-14-2008, 05:13 PM
The first monkey-human came from there I believe. The transforming species traveled north to become the Neanderthals(sp?).

Not true, there is little to no proof that Homo Sapiens derived from Neanderthal. The first hominid to leave Africa is believed to be Homo Erectus, it is still uncertain that Homo Sapien originated from Homo Erectus.

There are 3 big theories.

Out of Africa- Most popular theory, that Homo Sapiens evolved from Africa and migrated out, or were descendants from Hominids that lived in Africa then migrated out.

Out of Asia- Same as out of Africa, except the actual cross over from early Hominid to Homo Sapien occurred in Asia. The only proof to this theory is a very small amount of skeletons and that fact that China wants credit for modern humans coming from Asia.

Regional- Evolution of Hominids occurred separately from one another across different regions. Theory is relatively new (all the cool rebel scientists agree) but is not all that creditable right now. Still holds more water than the batshit Our of Asia one.

I had to put my class in Biological Anthropology to some use : D

Italian Jew
07-14-2008, 08:09 PM
:O

I took an Anthropology course myself. Quite interesting. It was only an intro course, so we only cruised through the 4 sections of it. Was thinking about minoring in it.

But back to being on topic for this thread, don't really think charging a leader of a country (especially if the leader doesn't give a shit) will fix anything. If the leader isn't going to answer for himself, the only course to bring the leader to justice would be through either a war or covert op where he is kidnapped. If people want to go to war, fine, but not the US. We got our plates full at the moment. Maybe the UN can do something on its own (doubtful unless we hold their hand through the process).

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-14-2008, 08:43 PM
I Am Glad The United States Does Not Recognize This International Court.

The Last Thing We Need Is Some International Court Overuling Our Supreme Court, And Even Though Unlikely The Power To Take Away Our Rights Such As Our Right To Bear Arms, Which Many Europeans Would Love To Take Away From Us.

LegalSmash
07-14-2008, 09:10 PM
I Am Glad The United States Does Not Recognize This International Court.

The Last Thing We Need Is Some International Court Overuling Our Supreme Court, And Even Though Unlikely The Power To Take Away Our Rights Such As Our Right To Bear Arms, Which Many Europeans Would Love To Take Away From Us.

International courts are complete jokes. They are basically a mechanism inserted so Europe and other "first world by association" former colonialist countries that shall remain nameless while they tidy their avenues for the next German invasion can feel like they still have power or pull in the world.

Without a general consensus and the person being subjected to the court's jurisdiction, its about as useful as dick clark's real penis.

Slavic
07-14-2008, 11:24 PM
Even if the leader of Sudan was forcibly removed via International Court or assassination, it won't change the situation. The situation going on in darfur is almost entirely militia based. It has become a low level genocide of arabs v. africans, the Sudanese army and police force is to disorganized and small to quell the violence.

Either the UN or AU grows some balls and over steps Sudan' sovereignty, or we just wait till they are all dead.

Italian Jew
07-14-2008, 11:48 PM
And then we take all the sand! :partydance:

(and the oil, but don't tell anyone in charge about the oil. If Sudan is labeled a "terrorist" country, then we will definitely be there for their oil)

LegalSmash
07-15-2008, 12:39 AM
And then we take all the sand! :partydance:

(and the oil, but don't tell anyone in charge about the oil. If Sudan is labeled a "terrorist" country, then we will definitely be there for their oil)

But its worthless, and has aids. Why do we want that sand?

Slavic
07-15-2008, 12:50 AM
But its worthless, and has aids. Why do we want that sand?

We can use it to make pretty pictures like UAE does : D

*Queen VenomousFate*
07-15-2008, 12:51 AM
its about as useful as dick clark's real penis.

Dick Clark Has A Real Penis?

That Is Amazing I Never Knew That.

Lux
07-15-2008, 07:28 AM
I Am Glad The United States Does Not Recognize This International Court.

The Last Thing We Need Is Some International Court Overuling Our Supreme Court, And Even Though Unlikely The Power To Take Away Our Rights Such As Our Right To Bear Arms, Which Many Europeans Would Love To Take Away From Us.

Er I'm gonna have to agree with the International court bit. I don't like the UK having to abide by the European Union's rules, if the country had it our way we wouldn't be but our PM won't let us, despite promising a vote. Think it about guys, are you saying that this war is ok??? You really are being over protective of something worthless. I wouldn't love to take your guns from you, why do I care if American's get shot? But then when you look at a country like Sudan, they all carry guns and mix that with a greedy insane government and you have genocide like this. We all love our countries traditions but try and not think "Guns are cool, lets keep them", I don't say "Nuclear Bombs are cool lets make them legal and cheap", obviously its worse but whether you punch someone to death or shoot them to death, its still death.


ANYWAY......These international courts do seem a joke because if the truth is that they can't actually do anything about this problem, what is the whole point??? Either leave them alone or do something about it, no point sitting on the fence.

"They are basically a mechanism inserted so Europe and other "first world by association" former colonialist countries that shall remain nameless while they tidy their avenues for the next German invasion can feel like they still have power or pull in the world."

Ok well I think this is maybe a bit wrong........Most West Europe countries are a power in the world, you don't need 10,000 nukes to be powerful, and when you consider stuff like GDP we really aren't behind you.

But then once you get past some of the bigger powers no one gives a dam anyway, so having these countries involved in anything is pointless.

Also...I don't think Germany are going to invade anyone again..........no big countries are going to fight another because they have learnt from the past. It is more than the "Triple Alliance" of World War 2, fighting Iraq or Sudan isn't going to provoke anyone but past that you are asking for World War 3.

Italian Jew
07-15-2008, 11:46 AM
Big countries will fight each other again because they are the states of people. People don't agree with one another most of the time and they tend to want to kill the other person because of this lack of agreement. They may say, "yeah, we learn from history not to do this..." but in reality more and more people will die in the wars to come because of the advances in killing technology and the simple fact that there are more people to kill.

Sudan will probably not be involved in anything unless they decide they want to side with one of our enemies at the moment. The world can just call the waaaaaaaaahmbulance over this issue because nothing can really be done.