PDA

View Full Version : America is in Trouble



Repeat
07-01-2008, 11:11 AM
We're going to have some SERIOUS issues here in the future if we do not start fixing this shit NOW.

http://www.perotcharts.com

I highly suggest that you take a few minutes out of your day to get smart on this stuff. The answer is NOT higher taxes either, my friends.

KawaiiVag
07-01-2008, 11:35 AM
Too bad Ross Perot is a nut.

Irish Rebel
07-01-2008, 11:37 AM
yea ireland too!
after they said "NO" to the lisbon treaty,they will get beaten up!
but now serious
i say (it culd be that im wrong)
"no taxation without representation!"

Dracula
07-01-2008, 12:06 PM
We needs monies oh noze

zero
07-01-2008, 12:09 PM
Informative site, though I disagree with Ross Perot's views and solutions. Anyway, have you ever looked at what we spend when it comes to national defense? I noticed that the site didn't mention anything about this. The U.S. accounts for more than half of all military spending in the world.

In other words, we spend more on our national defense than the entire rest of the world combined.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
http://borgenproject.org/Defense_Spending.html

Hey, gotta keep those terrorists at bay, I guess.

Dracula
07-01-2008, 12:18 PM
What we need to look at is who are we still paying money to after kicking there nations ass.

BOOWY
07-01-2008, 12:20 PM
Informative site, though I disagree with Ross Perot's views and solutions. Anyway, have you ever looked at what we spend when it comes to national defense? I noticed that the site didn't mention anything about this. The U.S. accounts for more than half of all military spending in the world.

In other words, we spend more on our national defense than the entire rest of the world combined.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm
http://borgenproject.org/Defense_Spending.html

Hey, gotta keep those terrorists at bay, I guess.

America's been in 10 major wars since it's inception, I'm not surprised.

PotshotPolka
07-01-2008, 12:44 PM
Since so many people are in the dark...

The economy is like pie.
We buy and sell pie. We eat pie for substance.

Sometimes we sell too much pie, and everyone eats to much pie, then no one wants to buy more pie. This results in a stagnation of pie revenue, and results in other products inflating in value, like milk, which we drink with pie.

Sometimes we burn the pie, and the pie goes bad. Sometimes the pie has to much yeast, and explodes.


When we get into these pie fights the government keeps on buying pies, but doesn't tax us for them, and then we find ourselves in debt to the fortune cookie companies overseas.


Anywho... seriously.

Food for thought. We have 150,000 troops stationed on the world's second largest oil deposit. We have an entire nation pulled away from the novelty of this, being amused by the shenanigans of a seemingly inept man, a staggering economy, and prices at the pump. All of this happening as oil production inevitably begins to no longer reach demand of new markets in Asia.

I like pie.

Rea¦per
07-01-2008, 02:42 PM
Even though I live in America's Hat (Canada if you don't get the draft), I still say America is goin to hell in a hand basket. No offence intented...

PotshotPolka
07-01-2008, 03:09 PM
Even though I live in America's Hat (Canada if you don't get the draft), I still say America is goin to hell in a hand basket. No offence intented...

Plenty taken.

yojimbo
07-01-2008, 03:10 PM
oh there will always be shitty times and neutral times in the life of a country.
were just headin for another shitty era for a while.
change
it happens so much
you just cant dictate it.

BOOWY
07-01-2008, 03:31 PM
Yeah, and some of those were entered late. :wink:

SLIGHTLY MORE SERIOUS COMMENT:

Ohnoes teh worlds pulice R in truble!11one-oneonE!13e!211

Doesn't change the fact that America spends so much on national security and defense because of it's reputation, because either they need it or they think they need it... hoping on the latter by the way out of good nature and personal safety because I'm fairly close to the border. Like it or not, war's your biggest reputation 'boost', and there are a lot of countries that just love you right now.

Italian Jew
07-01-2008, 03:51 PM
But we want our massive empire too!!!111!!1!1

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette. :rlol:

We will crash and burn, don't worry. We are on our way. Even if we get past all this crap now and get going as the world #1 again, we won't last long. Our turn is almost up. :laugh:

KawaiiVag
07-01-2008, 04:01 PM
Well at least we're not like Russia, amirite?

Anyways, besides our governent spending money on military, they should stop with Foreign Aid with countries such as Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and France to name a few. Then possibly those countries will have something to actually bitch about rather than complain about Americans being greedy pigs, then turning around and killing children(French can still kill due to their lack of bathing).

Repeat
07-01-2008, 04:04 PM
Even though I live in America's Hat (Canada if you don't get the draft), I still say America is goin to hell in a hand basket. No offence intented...

At the current rate we’re going to hell in a hand basket in a hurry. BOTH liberals and conservatives haven’t done their jobs when it comes to many issues. I’ve had it with both parties (I’m extraordinarily conservative when it comes to spending/taxes, and a little bit of both on social issues, just depends). It’s not just the war that is putting us in debt and killing out economy. For far too long this country has been taking from it’s citizens their hard earned money and spending it on things they shouldn’t be. If you took the time to read those charts, you’d see that a majority of the federal revenue goes to pay for “mandatory” expenses – 581 BILLION dollars was spend on Social Security in 2007 alone, a larger chunk than what was spent on Defense. The United States Government is NOT your daddy. It is not the government’s function to hold your hand make sure your life is okay. Only you are responsible for that. Hard work and courage were what this country was founded on and now it appears those very things are what the federal government are punishing.

More of my rant later…

TimTaylor
07-01-2008, 04:09 PM
Haha propaganda:

USA GDP TOTAL: $13.543 trillion
USA DEBT: $ 12.250 trillion. (As of 07)

This means we make more per capita then our debt.

United Kingdoms debt: $10.450 trillion.
United Kingdoms GDP TOTAL: $2.270 trillion

Germany's debt: $4.486 trillion
Germany's GDP TOTAL: $2.81 trillion

This would mean the United Kingdom and Germany are in a even worse debt then the USA. Yet I don't see anyone else focusing on them. Nice double standard.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2079rank.html

Italian Jew
07-01-2008, 04:33 PM
The problem is that we are spending much more than we take in revenues. This is not propaganda but common knowledge. Our debt is growing more than those other countries. Notice how everything mentioned in the Perot info points towards a FUTURE problem.

Red
07-01-2008, 04:42 PM
We may have larger debts than other countries but we can afford them and do pay them off.

BOOWY
07-01-2008, 04:44 PM
This is a different issue altogether, but that's like going out to meet the owner of some big casino in Las Vegas and accusing him that his machines are rigged so people will lose with some evidence to back it up. What's he going to tell you? Is he going to agree and have the press all over his ass or is he going to lie to flick you off like an obnoxious booger?

These are likely part of the same group of people if not the same group of people that told you Iraq had WMDs several years ago. I dunno, I'm not clear on that; don't know, don't care. What I do know is that there's a gross amount of misinformation flying around that's certainly not winning the government any favors with people who are willing to question authority and not roll over when they're told to.

EDIT: This is meant for TimTaylor by the way, some responses have slipped in while I was typing and doing other junk.

Italian Jew
07-01-2008, 05:16 PM
We may have larger debts than other countries but we can afford them and do pay them off.

Which is why our debt is growing, right? The government can only pay off (or try to pay off) the interest to try and slow down the amount of debt that accrues because if the government wants to attack the debt, it needs to cut back on spending and put that money towards removing the debt. We still owe money from hundreds of years ago. The government would have to cut spending on EVERYTHING at least a little bit to begin to fix the debt problem to create a surplus. We had one with Clinton 1.0 for a while, but more spending caused by war and the growing problem of social security/other money guzzling programs led to the surplus disappearing. Now the US dollar is beginning to tank (as everyone knows) and businesses are beginning to cut back due to losses.

Looks like everything is A-OK in America though. We still get to pretend we will run the world for the rest of time.:001_rolleyes:

LegalSmash
07-02-2008, 10:26 AM
Good idea.

P.S. I doubt you'll get sympathy votes for debt from me, seen as Britain's only just recently finished paying off the money the US demanded for their help in WW2.

Face it, US only joined because it'd boost them out of the Great Depression. Patriotism is the best economic thing since the print press.

true, and there is nothing wrong with that




What, and end up with every Muslim thinking the west are trying to start an embargo, resulting in Islamic Jihad?


As we're studying in history at the moment, if the US even tried to stop the Wahabi extremist charity fund they'd react voilently back saying they're trying to deprive them of education and money.

Thats where our countries differ, you placate those assholes that would go durkah Jihad over a suspension of programs which are purely gratuitous in nature,

We in the US placate black americans with their victim complex bullshit, which has generally held the country back after 1980 when desegregation measures where no longer fully necessary. IMHO the ball should lay as played, and once a program, gratuitous or otherwise has run its course and other wise achieved its goal, move the ball along and use the money in better ways.

yojimbo
07-02-2008, 12:23 PM
pot shot, i dont know what it is about
your signature,
but I just cant
Stop watching it lol.
that girl must have had a heart attack
when that giant bear jumped at her LOL
but why was she wearing a bear hat?

I guess that bear doesnt like other bears....
or just people wearing bear hats lol.

all i know is that if i was a bear in a cage,
id do that to people all the time

oh and for America,
I think that we need to be more independant when it comes to oil,
and not rely so much on the middle east, that we have to risk american lives
to keep our troops there to "INFLUENCE" the middle east, and prevent them from
forming coilation and limiting/increasing the price of oil to the USA.

And if you all didnt know, and its true, our largest export right now is Garbage,
and China is buying most of it.
why?
I dont know, probably to turn into more beanie babies to ship back to us :/
:birthday:

Repeat
07-02-2008, 12:39 PM
Face it, US only joined because it'd boost them out of the Great Depression. Patriotism is the best economic thing since the print press.


GTFO, two members of my family died in Pearl Harbor. The depression being the only reason my ass. I think that warm Sunday morning played a pretty big part too.

Italian Jew
07-02-2008, 12:53 PM
Yeah, having your country bombed and having thousands die kinda makes you a tad pissed. Having the economic boost was a side-effect, not the purpose. The Japs were allies of Germany, and seeing as how Germany wanted Japan to attack the US to stall us...you can see why we acted.

broncoty
07-02-2008, 01:06 PM
Face it, US only joined because it'd boost them out of the Great Depression. Patriotism is the best economic thing since the print press.

you are usually dead on, but if you read your history book you would know that we tried to stay out of WW II until the japs decided to bring us into it

so quite to the contrary

broncoty
07-02-2008, 01:07 PM
Then why didn't the US get involved when the Lusitania was sunk by U-20, killing 128 American civilians?

Because the Americans thought we'd lose. It's simple. They thought that Britain would lose, so they wouldn't get involved. It was only until we started winning that the opinions changed.

lol you didnt start winning until we came over

Italian Jew
07-02-2008, 01:11 PM
Then why didn't the US get involved when the Lusitania was sunk by U-20, killing 128 American civilians?

Because the Americans thought we'd lose. It's simple. They thought that Britain would lose, so they wouldn't get involved. It was only until we started winning that the opinions changed.

No, we didn't want into any of your Euro affairs unless it involved our safety in some way. Remember the Zimmerman telegram? That basically said Germany was already against us and wanted Mexico to invade while they went off and took Europe.

Also, the Lusitania was a British ship, so it wasn't Germany attacking an American ship and those Americans were not targets. Some Americans wanted to go to war, but it was preferred to stay out of YOUR shit. We wanted to remain neutral, but at the same time we were helping your sorry asses from being strangled.

Repeat
07-02-2008, 01:14 PM
No, we didn't want into any of your Euro affairs unless it involved our safety in some way. Remember the Zimmerman telegram? That basically said Germany was already against us and wanted Mexico to invade while they went off and took Europe.

Also, the Lusitania was a British ship, so it wasn't Germany attacking an American ship and those Americans were not targets. We wanted to remain neutral, but at the same time we were helping your sorry asses from being strangled.

Bulls-eye. Not just the outer black circle, but like that tiny little red one in the middle.

I think it's always interesting that the world gets upset when the US goes into conflict, but when we just sit back and let other countries problems play out, they get pissed that we're not helping.

Italian Jew
07-02-2008, 01:24 PM
Yes, but declaring war on Japan doesn't mean alliancing with Britain or declaring war on Germany. U-boats couldn't get as far as America, and it'd be laughable if they tried to send an air force all that way.

If anything, declaring war on Japan would mean becoming involved with the second Sino-Japanese War.

The main reasons they declared war on Germany was for economic boost, the Great Depression and the fact that they realised that the German technology was becoming so advanced they were fast becoming able to build an atom bomb. (Which lead to a huge campaign of bombings to stop them from). Also, you could take into consideration the threat of the Soviet Union, as Berlin would be a major foothold against them -- let's not forget that the US wanted to keep going and advance into the USSR after world war 2.


All that cold war shit got started DURING WWII. Was the US going to try and stop the USSR from doing anything during the depression? It was once the USSR got pushed and fought back becoming a powerful nation that the US saw the threat of wide-spread Soviet rule. When we had the economy and military to possibly fight them, that is when we began to think that way.

Yes, let the US invade Germany because we are out of monies. Let's forget the hostilities between Germany (and allies) against US (and allies). Germany sinking OUR ships in the Atlantic trying to help YOU...must mean they like is so much. If we wanted to make a quick buck, we could have taken your half burned down island or France well before Germany went apeshit.


EDIT: Those Americans knew they were heading into dangerous territory. They went to Europe during a European war. Having Americans going into Zimbabwe for vacation knowing that it is dangerous and possibly life threatening does not mean their deaths represent the beginning of a war with Zimbabwe. Some wanted war in the US at the time, but not enough for Congress to allow it.

Italian Jew
07-02-2008, 01:28 PM
Hold on, I thought America was supposed to be anti-Imperialist? :001_smile:

America is/was supposed to be a lot of things.

Italian Jew
07-02-2008, 01:40 PM
EDIT: Yes, I'm aware of that fact, but the fact remains they still died, and the government at the time was too cowardly to do anything. Don't forget that the secretary of state resigned because he was scared they'd declare war on Germany.

Don't mistake cowardice for dignity. We don't jump to European wars because they are fun or we just hate somebody. We were not involved militarily until Germany forced us to. Stop getting all pissy because we had to finish the job.

Omar
07-02-2008, 01:51 PM
meh, i dont rly give a shit, just go away from iraq plz thx. theres no warheads NO GO HOME FFS, we will handle our self, it will take some time, and please stop ur soldiers from giving the kids candy, it scares me.

mNote
07-02-2008, 02:21 PM
I think everyone is playing too much video games and ignoring RL issues.

BOOWY
07-02-2008, 02:51 PM
I think everyone is believing and feeling everything the media tells them to believe and feel instead of doing their own research and forming their own opinions. I think many people in the thread are doing that, and that's good, and it makes for good debate.

PotshotPolka
07-02-2008, 05:50 PM
Then why didn't the US get involved when the Lusitania was sunk by U-20, killing 128 American civilians?

Because the Americans thought we'd lose. It's simple. They thought that Britain would lose, so they wouldn't get involved. It was only until we started winning that the opinions changed.

O hell yes! History time!

We would of, but it was proven that weapons and ammo/supplies were aboard the ship, and it was declared fair game, not that those basterds in their campbell soup can knew it when they fired the torpedo. We actually joined the war for two reasons, besides the one that Havok mentioned, which is your own damn fault mind you :001_rolleyes:
At this point do to the blockades around Germany we could basically only trade with the Allied powers, so eventually since the Zimmerman note went FUBAR (attempt to make Mexico attack America) they declared Unlimited Sub-Warfare, and started sinking everything. Also, since the Allied powers were running low on money we lent them massive amounts so they could buy more.
And since the war was still a bit undecided (even though the Germans lines were beginning to break) we went in to insure our damn debts would be paid.

LegalSmash
07-02-2008, 06:24 PM
They didn't have to fight in Europe to fight the Japanese.



Yea because you guys were doing so well with France as an ally after Dunkirk. Also, Germany declared war on the US two days later after PH.

TimTaylor
07-02-2008, 09:03 PM
Also, the allies were losing before the USA joined the European Theater.

PotshotPolka
07-02-2008, 09:52 PM
Also, the allies were losing before the USA joined the European Theater.

What European Theater? THEATER? Too much Medal of Honor for you.

broncoty
07-02-2008, 11:51 PM
Yes, but declaring war on Japan doesn't mean alliancing with Britain or declaring war on Germany. U-boats couldn't get as far as America, and it'd be laughable if they tried to send an air force all that way.

If anything, declaring war on Japan would mean becoming involved with the second Sino-Japanese War.

The main reasons they declared war on Germany was for economic boost, the Great Depression and the fact that they realised that the German technology was becoming so advanced they were fast becoming able to build an atom bomb. (Which lead to a huge campaign of bombings to stop them from). Also, you could take into consideration the threat of the Soviet Union, as Berlin would be a major foothold against them -- let's not forget that the US wanted to keep going and advance into the USSR after world war 2.

EDIT:

bron, have you heard of the Africa campaign? Or perhaps, for a very similar situation, the Falklands War?

Italian, yes I know it was a British ship, thanks for looking it up on Wikipedia. If you'd keep looking you'd see it had 139 American civilians on board -- 128 of which died.

Again go read a text book, Germany declared war on the U.S because we declared war on Japan, and Japan, Germany, and Italy all had an alliance.

So again quite to the contrary japan dragged us into it.

Psyche
07-03-2008, 01:04 AM
America is in Trouble

No shit. But in all seriousness. I am worried for America, in the presidential election, rising gas prices, the 'war in Iraq,' etc.

LegalSmash
07-03-2008, 06:20 AM
No shit. But in all seriousness. I am worried for America, in the presidential election, rising gas prices, the 'war in Iraq,' etc.

LOL. Gas prices are what they are, its called demand, speculation, inflation, economics... the war in iraq is nothing to worry about, we've only lost 4.5 K or some odd, and well, TBH, its just not that relevant.

People are more worried about economic downturns... and to be honest, its mostly their own fault for gambling with the one steady equity they had, their homes.

I dont like either candidate, they are both mediocre, wish wash, and refuse to state any semblance to a plan.

Bring on Hulk Hogan.

LitKey
07-03-2008, 06:37 AM
What European Theater? THEATER? Too much Medal of Honor for you.

Yes, the European Theater of Operations. I must say, you look very foolish right now, thinking the term "European Theater" originates from Medal of Honor.

LitKey
07-03-2008, 06:53 AM
meh, i dont rly give a shit, just go away from iraq plz thx. theres no warheads NO GO HOME FFS, we will handle our self, it will take some time, and please stop ur soldiers from giving the kids candy, it scares me.

We'd have left already if we didn't care at all about the Iraqi people, our troops, and our countrymen and allies. But fortunately, violence in Iraq is currently at an all-time low, and I can see most US forces leaving Iraq in a few years with a peacekeeping force akin to the US military personnel stationed in Germany and Korea left there. As for you implying we should stop our soldiers from being kind to the Iraqi people, particularly the children by handing out candy, food, and gifts to people, that's simply moronic.

Repeat
07-03-2008, 07:19 AM
No shit. But in all seriousness. I am worried for America, in the presidential election, rising gas prices, the 'war in Iraq,' etc.

Like LegSma said, gas prices are what they are. We need to produce our OWN oil, and start weening ourselves off of the stuff.

We have much larger problems here in this country. Taxes, Social Security/ other various 'hand-outs' etc are all much more pressing concerns. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't care about the war in Iraq (God bless every one of those soldiers), but we've got bigger fish to fry.

Repeat
07-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Face it, US only joined because it'd boost them out of the Great Depression. Patriotism is the best economic thing since the print press.


Fail. I'm pretty sure this is what you said in regards to us getting into the war. You changed your argument once we called you out on it.

Omar
07-03-2008, 03:21 PM
To be quite honest I forgot what we were even arguing about, I had to look back a few pages to see. So no, I haven't changed it, I'm just sick of arguing. I've realised how stupid it is to try to convince someone something about their own country.

meh, stop being so cool, cant u rub it on me or sumthin. ive seen ur post lately and all them are very good. and.. well... i think ur cool :D

LegalSmash
07-03-2008, 04:42 PM
meh, stop being so cool, cant u rub it on me or sumthin. ive seen ur post lately and all them are very good. and.. well... i think ur cool :D

I think your past few have been nearly fucktarded... sorry to say. Litkey said it best regarding Iraq... Also, I'd add that you are in Denmark, far from what is going on, and about as abreast on it as terry schiavo is capable of playing tackle football.

As for Havok, I wonder what he considers all the millions upon millions of tons of war materiel we shipped to britain, including feeding them on SPAM for the better part of 1940-1945, we were in on that war at the earliest possible point, helping because the leadership of the US at the time knew what was coming.