A few questions towards a select few of our rules.

Sorry for the thread here guys, I understand we have plenty of threads and posts about the rules but in recent events I'm getting conflicting answers. So I apologize, I know I should know our rules 100% but I see a lot of grey once in a while.

@Neptune @Rawrie Since you two do provide good feedback.

1. Last CT that does not do a last request.

"* Last requests are NOT required" http://www.steam-gamers.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12708

So, I believe I was speaking with @Anguish about this yesterday night.

That the loophole with this is you order the T to not move but can free-look, but if they move you warning shot until they are killed due to low health. That being said, delaying the round isn't something we want. Most of the time T's will do a last request but when someone does not request a last request, we basically delay the round by giving orders to 1 T, right?

Like, telling them freeday in Disco for the last 2 minutes or so.

Give me a reason why we should not force last requests? It's an order like any other.

2. Not obeying orders

Sorry this is very vague title, and question.

I do have an example for this, but I'd like to point out that Caution has said, that if you are told to go to X but you go to Y, its a form of rebelling.

The other day on Space Jail, I ordered the T's to go on big diving board, I gave them a certain time to be on it.

Way past the time, I got out of the pool and saw 3 T's not on top of the diving board.

One had an AWP, killed him ofc, the other two, were just jumping around and swimming, I killed them.

@Spartan You did however say, I free killed. How is this so when they were given direct orders to go on to of diving board?

I always assume warning shots are giving if lets say I was already in pool and told them to go to diving board, and one delayed, I would give them a warning shot. If they keep on delaying, its a form of rebelling.

"* CT's are required to give warning shots for petty rule breaking. However, if a T is blatantly rebelling (going into an area to escape, being somewhere they shouldn't be, running away, etc) then they can be killed."

3. Last CT

I just want to bring this up to clear up a few things.

As last CT, they can say freeday, No Soccer and just camp the soccer room waiting for the T's to come.

What makes this not camping or camping? Does the CT's have to keep moving or since they gave a order to the T's he is allowed to sit in one area? @Rawrie Sorry Fam, going to use you as an example.

Rawrie is last CT and he is enjoying the tunes in disco, He gives an order for the T's to enjoy a nice freeday.

Rawrie while enjoying the music, has a few T's run into disco, they get killed.

Rawrie continues to enjoy the music in disco until the round ends.

So this is pretty much the correct way of last CT no?

Or would camping as last CT be defined as being in a vent or one way wall with an awp? What If they still gave an order.

What defines camping if orders were given.

Sorry guys, I really don't mean to make these threads but it will be deleted once I get a few answers here.

I pretty much agree with all of this, the CT side doesn't need to be worrying about other T's that choose to cause huge delays to the round, there's already been plenty of discussions about the round time not being long enough so why would we make it worse by allowing people to delay 30 seconds to a minute worth of time. As for the camping thing, I'll use a personal situation in, I was alive along with other 2 CT'S, there were around 8-9 T's alive. I saw one go in armory teleporter so I followed suit and went in and killed him, in the time doing so, both of my teammates died and I was stuck in armory, and they knew I was seeing as I was called out via voice chat. They basically held every angle they could on every exit. The fact they have me trapped in there and I'm still accused of camping as last CT? I really don't understand that, if they know where I am, why won't they just gather a group a push together, why should I be the one to go out there. (Throwing this additional information, the orders during this round it was a freeday, nothing to enforce). Like I said before, I pretty much agree with all of this, also referencing the forced LR'S I asked @Nuclear Onion about this in the rule discussion and I was answered, but then I warned a player not to ask for a freeday for the rest of the round just to make everyone mad, and he responded it's not in the rules and I asked other admins and they said you can't force LR'S. I tried messaging a higher up as to what to do but I got no response and it only lead to confusion among the server, and I just had to result into saying I myself don't know what to do. The only question I have is, do we enforce what is agreed on in the rules discussion thread or not?

(I typed this really late at night, I'm tired so it's probably all over the place. I'm sorry evariejuan)

I agree with what you said on the "Tactical defence strategy", If the last CT can handle the remaining T's all the power to them, but If they just sit in one spot, it kinda gets iffy, I guess it all comes down to if they gave an order or not. If said CT is camping and said nothing about orders, that's when we step in.

If a CT does give orders, perfect.

The only question I have is, do we enforce what is agreed on in the rules discussion thread or not?

Personally, I feel we have the right to force Last requests and to accept to decline them.

Ordering a T to go to medic or to go into iso is no different than asking them what's 1 + 1.

I'll walk up to a T and order him to answer my question, if he doesn't ill warning shot him.

So how is this any different than asking a T for a last request.

Damn I just re-worded my question...

On a side note;

If T's keep asking for free days, I will tell them no, but If I'm dead and another CT says yes, I will revoke the freeday next round but that results in both sides crying over it.

I agree with what you said on the "Tactical defence strategy", If the last CT can handle the remaining T's all the power to them, but If they just sit in one spot, it kinda gets iffy, I guess it all comes down to if they gave an order or not. If said CT is camping and said nothing about orders, that's when we step in.

If a CT does give orders, perfect.

 

 

 

Personally, I feel we have the right to force Last requests and to accept to decline them.

Ordering a T to go to medic or to go into iso is no different than asking them what's 1 + 1.

I'll walk up to a T and order him to answer my question, if he doesn't ill warning shot him.

So how is this any different than asking a T for a last request.

 

Damn I just re-worded my question...

On a side note;

If T's keep asking for free days, I will tell them no, but If I'm dead and another CT says yes, I will revoke the freeday next round but that results in both sides crying over it.

That brings up something else, if we do force LR'S I don't think we should be able to revoke them otherwise that defy's forced LR'S.

That brings up something else, if we do force LR'S I don't think we should be able to revoke them otherwise that defy's forced LR'S.

I mean if we revoke a certain LR, we just tell them to pick something else.

Like when souce is doing his stupid 1 minute long LR, I tell him to pick something normal and he picks 2x awp scope match.

In some cases you get a request like a T asking to kill someone, we can revoke that request and tell them to pick something else.

LR's have to be within reason.

Last requests are not mandatory to be given, by the !rules on JB server. What I'd do as CT is give the remaining T('s) an order if they don't want an last request and blatant disobedience gets you killed, while still using warning shots for smaller delays and such.

Of course CT can still deny the LR and ask for something else, if the T gives an LR that does not fit into the remaining time of a round, as example.

If there is for example half of the time of a round left and the Last CT is pretty much camping to survive and to get kills, I'd say it is delaying the game/round. Personally I go most of time looking for the T's so I would be able to give orders to them as the last CT, I might get killed in the process but so what? It's a game.

About disobeying orders, if the T's start wandering off to different direction where ordered, just use warning shots at first but blatant disobedience can be shot and killed for. Pretty much what I said on first part of this post..

And what's for free days, they Can be revoked at any given time by the CT's as it is supposed to be prison, not kindergarten.

i just dont see what so hard about rules on the jailbreak server, they are the same rules from css, why change them? they work.

"* Last requests are NOT required" http://www.steam-gamers.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12708

 

So, I believe I was speaking with @Anguish about this yesterday night.

That the loophole with this is you order the T to not move but can free-look, but if they move you warning shot until they are killed due to low health. That being said, delaying the round isn't something we want. Most of the time T's will do a last request but when someone does not request a last request, we basically delay the round by giving orders to 1 T, right?

 

Like, telling them freeday in Disco for the last 2 minutes or so.

 

Give me a reason why we should not force last requests? It's an order like any other.

Forcing a last request = forcing a death game. You are basically telling the T pick something that ends in me killing you, or I kill you for not doing that. As in the example that Anguish gave you, that is the best way IMO to counter a T refusing to LR.

And actually, taken from that same thread you linked about the expanded MOTD

* CT's can not force the Terrorists to do something that can kill them, such as drowning them or making them go into a death chamber.

Forcing LR is forcing them to do something that kills them.

2. Not obeying orders

Sorry this is very vague title, and question.

 

I do have an example for this, but I'd like to point out that Caution has said, that if you are told to go to X but you go to Y, its a form of rebelling.

The other day on Space Jail, I ordered the T's to go on big diving board, I gave them a certain time to be on it.

Way past the time, I got out of the pool and saw 3 T's not on top of the diving board.

One had an AWP, killed him ofc, the other two, were just jumping around and swimming, I killed them.

@Spartan You did however say, I free killed. How is this so when they were given direct orders to go on to of diving board?

 

I always assume warning shots are giving if lets say I was already in pool and told them to go to diving board, and one delayed, I would give them a warning shot. If they keep on delaying, its a form of rebelling.

 

"* CT's are required to give warning shots for petty rule breaking. However, if a T is blatantly rebelling (going into an area to escape, being somewhere they shouldn't be, running away, etc) then they can be killed."

With your example, I personally don't think you should have just killed the two farting around and swimming. I still don't think orders of, as an example, "go to big cage. Be there by 3:00" are allowed, as IMO it fits under what Xeno said in the admin section back in September.

Warning shots are not part of the game mode anymore. Every CT uses "or KOS" at the end of every order to bypass it and just mow down T's...If someone makes a curve path instead of a straight one, it's not blatant, yet I get killed for it nowadays.

To me, at least, saying "by 3:00" (since most of the time by 3:00 is followed up by "or KOS"), is just a way to bypass warning shots. For example, the order is be in big cage by 3:00. Well, a T happens to be afk, comes back, and is clearly on his way to big cage by since its now 2:55, he can be killed?

IMO, with the example you gave, since the Ts were just farting around and swimming, I would just consider it a delay. It's not like they are in say showers, or they are trying to rebel. I would have just warning shot them and told them to get on the diving board. I will defer to a higher up, as they might see the situation different.

3. Last CT

I just want to bring this up to clear up a few things.

 

As last CT, they can say freeday, No Soccer and just camp the soccer room waiting for the T's to come.

What makes this not camping or camping? Does the CT's have to keep moving or since they gave a order to the T's he is allowed to sit in one area? @Rawrie Sorry Fam, going to use you as an example.

 

Rawrie is last CT and he is enjoying the tunes in disco, He gives an order for the T's to enjoy a nice freeday.

Rawrie while enjoying the music, has a few T's run into disco, they get killed.

 

Rawrie continues to enjoy the music in disco until the round ends.

 

So this is pretty much the correct way of last CT no?

Or would camping as last CT be defined as being in a vent or one way wall with an awp? What If they still gave an order.

What defines camping if orders were given.

Taken from this image

the rule states that CTs may camp if it helps their team, and that last must not delay. There is no rule that last CT can not camp. This is a common misconception. People often respond to this with "camping is delaying".Not necessarily. Another good example is the scout tower on lego. If the order is say, soccer. And the last CT is in the scout tower, and Ts are actively rebelling, and the CT is killing the rebels from the tower, he isn't delaying. He is camping, but not delaying.

As for the camping thing, I'll use a personal situation in, I was alive along with other 2 CT'S, there were around 8-9 T's alive. I saw one go in armory teleporter so I followed suit and went in and killed him, in the time doing so, both of my teammates died and I was stuck in armory, and they knew I was seeing as I was called out via voice chat. They basically held every angle they could on every exit. The fact they have me trapped in there and I'm still accused of camping as last CT? I really don't understand that, if they know where I am, why won't they just gather a group a push together, why should I be the one to go out there. (Throwing this additional information, the orders during this round it was a freeday, nothing to enforce)

As CT, it is your job to make sure that the Ts aren't rebelling, and as it was just a freeday, you enforce that they aren't doing shit like going on a catwalk, or going in a vent, or walking around with a primary. To counter your "why should I be the one to go out there", why should they be the ones having to rush into armory where you have the upper hand? I wouldn't say you were breaking a rule by camping, but it could be argued it was delaying.

That does however make me question the difference between camping armory during a freeday, and camping soccer during a "freeday no soccer." I'd like a higher up's opinion on how this would be ruled in regards to delaying.

Thanks peeps.

@Goku

Forcing a lr isnt forcing a deathgame.

They can easily ask for something not related to a deathgame lime go to disco.

Im not saying we should be alloud. Im just saying forcing it could be taken both ways as a deathgame or not.

@Anguish

They are not hard, just needed a few things cleared up. Mainly not being were you are told to be.

Thanks peeps.

@Goku

 

Forcing a lr isnt forcing a deathgame.

They can easily ask for something not related to a deathgame lime go to disco

@Anguish

They are not hard, just needed a few things cleared up

forcing an LR is a deathgame, bc at the end of the LR you die. how is that not a deathgame?