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View Full Version : Florida and Michigan get 1/2 votes



Red
05-31-2008, 06:09 PM
Almost as good as 3/5 votes that blacks/slaves got.

Slaves > Floridians and Michiganites

LitKey
05-31-2008, 06:14 PM
way to go "democrats", don't count your primary voters

they're not people, count them as half a person

Red
05-31-2008, 06:20 PM
Who was it complaining about all their votes not being counted in 2000?

Oh that's right.

I don't want to hear the 2000 election votes as an argument for anything from any of them ever again, not after they just took a massive shit on their own constituents.

LegalSmash
05-31-2008, 06:39 PM
Im going to laugh when there is no recount required this time, as the half counted FL and Mi voters MAY JUST go for the opposing party after this type of thing. Good going DNC, keep beating your wife... she may learn... or leave you for a hotter, less commie chick

Toxin
05-31-2008, 06:58 PM
Racist. Damn Racist.
Blacks are people , aren't they? I though you already 'decided' or 'discovered' thirty years ago that Blacks are humanoide organism like me or you.


Like Litkey was saying :
Way to go, count the slaves and blacks as half human because they are not humans and don't have any rights in a world with human rights because they aren't human.

Veggie
05-31-2008, 07:11 PM
All I gotta say is "Here we go again" Cuts Self//

Red
05-31-2008, 07:11 PM
Racist. Damn Racist.
Blacks are people , aren't they? I though you already 'decided' or 'discovered' thirty years ago that Blacks are humanoide organism like me or you.



That's my point, even with 3/5 votes, they had more voice back in the day than Floridans and Michiganites have now in regards to the DNC votes.

Slavic
05-31-2008, 09:51 PM
There was a violation in the primary process in Michigan and Florida so their voting block was voided. Their votes would and should have been thrown out, but I think that Clinton's bitching annoyed enough powerful people.

Red
05-31-2008, 10:09 PM
This may be so but even though Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina also broke the same party rules by moving up their primaries, they were not sanctioned as Florida was, but were instead granted a waiver by the DNC from any such penalties.

They should also cut those votes in half too then. This is another reason what's going on in Florida and Michigan is fucked up.

LegalSmash
05-31-2008, 10:25 PM
There was a violation in the primary process in Michigan and Florida so their voting block was voided. Their votes would and should have been thrown out, but I think that Clinton's bitching annoyed enough powerful people.

As far as I am concerned, being that FL is a "must register" to vote in primary state, fuck the DNC for shooting themselves in the foot. They should show consistency though, and stick to their decision rather than only do it because hilary wants it. From what I understand she will be the ONLY choice in FL for the dems as opposed to an actual choice, it becomes more votes for twat-ery.

As a fl resident, this sort of asshattery by DNC just goes to show WHY Florida has swung to the GOP side in the past several elections.

Despite the fact th at I dislike BOTH parties TBH, I feel bad for these registered democrats who are n ot really going to get to take part in a primary (the whole reason for which they probably registered for) that isnt more than a sham.

Italian Jew
05-31-2008, 11:33 PM
From what I have deciphered from various internet sources, Iowa, N.H., and S.C. had special permission to perform their primaries earlier. They proposed to do this and the DNC allowed it. Florida and Michigan were denied and were told NOT to perform the primaries, therefore they were punished.

Florida claims they did it because the GOP committee in the state moved theirs up and they followed suit. I forget what Michigan's reason was.



The fault is within the specific state committees for not working things out in accordance to established rules.

LegalSmash
06-01-2008, 10:21 AM
and the greater fault lies with the DNC for disenfranchising its most loyal and likely voters (registered Dems) right before an election where both canditates are so moderate on TV they may as well be bisexual

LitKey
06-01-2008, 10:29 AM
fl & MI = republican locked.

Italian Jew
06-01-2008, 04:35 PM
and the greater fault lies with the DNC for disenfranchising its most loyal and likely voters (registered Dems) right before an election where both canditates are so moderate on TV they may as well be bisexual

Hopefully they will vote for the person and not the party. Voting because they are a part (or not part) of a party is just fucking dumb. Dunno if those people from Florida and Michigan will throw pissy fits, but some probably will (just the idiots with tempers and no true democratic spirit).

LegalSmash
06-01-2008, 04:53 PM
Hopefully they will vote for the person and not the party. Voting because they are a part (or not part) of a party is just fucking dumb. Dunno if those people from Florida and Michigan will throw pissy fits, but some probably will (just the idiots with tempers and no true democratic spirit).

Well, that is the problem, im FL and Mi, and many other large number electorate states, you have to "lock in" to a party through registration in order to vote in primary. These WOULD be the most supportive persons, by not only disenfranchising them but treating them as if they are worse than chattel slaves by telling them they count as HALF a vote, you are driving even more nails into the coffin of a Democratic victory in EITHER state. Its not a pissy fit man, its a violation of their trust both in the party and in the representatives of that party in the race.

Being from FL, the groups they are most likely pulling for: poor white people and bandwagoning college students (who are far too stoned to give a shit on election day, me and red saw this at FSU when we went to vote) are not going to take it well when the party essentially "got rid" of much of their say.

Also, the group that hillary would most likely cater to: the poor white vote and the lesbian/feminist/60 y/o former activist grandma vote has repeatedly stated that if hillary did NOT run they would vote for McCaine if at all.

If the "democratic spirit" that you are talking about is voting as individuals for the representative you feel is best, then there is no democratic spirit in ANY party, bc we still have electorate college and "superdelegates" and I cant see how that applies. It would be great if it was.

If the democratic spirit you mention however, is the "democratic party spirit" which this year, rather than "whine and bitch recount 2000", "swiftboat fucktard and the screaming dean 2004" it appears to be "fuck em over before they vote for us 2008" and I am glad I am a registered independent. This is a sad day for democratically styled government and elections and an absolutely hilarious day for me, because it further goes to show that this upcoming contest is going to be another muttering, stumbling, stammering, imbecilic commercial playing waste of primetime when all the good shows come back in.

On another note: Barrack is eating that church situation with some "regret" flavored hotsauce. That whole church business is really going to continue to bite him on the ass from here on in now that hes had such a public break with them. Barrack has to deal with that quickly, and as quietly as possible, because as soon as he is declared candidate (after hillary is off life support) the GOP is going to start digging and pile driving that situation and anything else they can dig up, no matter how insignificant.

Despite him NOT being my first choice as an ideal candidate, McCain may get some very much needed "Extra" help from the disenfranchised dem voters :

Shit, if McCain shuts the fuck up, smiles for the cameras, and doesnt do anything too stupid, and the DNC continue this sort of chicanery amongst their own: given the DNC's current situation, I see another 4 years of Republican rule... DNC really needs to get squared away if they intend to be competitive.

Captain Colon
06-01-2008, 06:49 PM
Shit, if McCain shuts the fuck up, smiles for the cameras, and doesnt do anything too stupid
But then what would be his appeal? :confused1:

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 04:30 AM
But then what would be his appeal? :confused1:

The only white male candidate. :001_tongue:

juku
06-02-2008, 08:13 AM
The only white male candidate. :001_tongue:

So true but his economic remarked nearly killed his race opportunity in the beginning. Though at least he had a huge landslide victory on his side of the party. Maybe that could be his appeal I totally whooped my opponents ass even if he knows not much about economy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bogh_sp5SE0

lies I say lies

Red
06-02-2008, 09:54 AM
And Obama is a stellar advocate of Economic stimulus.

Because taxing business owners and corporations more won't make them ship even more jobs overseas and raise prices /sarc.

Then he'll turn around and blame the corporations for shipping more jobs overseas after he helps to expedite this process himself.

krazykarl
06-02-2008, 11:01 AM
It was the best they could do given the circumstances.

Hillary was the only one on the Michigan primary ballot. The decision they made here was perfect to allocate accordingly.

For Florida, I think all the delegates should have been seated, but then that opens up the can of worms for those to not obey the party rules to begin with.

Eight months ago I would have said Democrats win the White House in a landslide, but go figure that they will put a black man, and a woman on thier ticket. Honestly with some of the comments I keep hearing which are utterly racist from some states, and knowing that a lot of people in our country feel that way but would never say it, I think the race is going to be closer than it should have been if the Democrats just picked Edwards (your typical white guy).

KrazyK

PS: I'm originally from Illinois and I will be voting Obama come the election. We all know Hillary is dead in the water.

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 01:05 PM
lol

Many of the people from West Virginia were just dumb, ignorant, bum fucks. You look at the exit polls and you would think you were in the damn 50's. Some chose not to vote for Obama because A) he is black and we struggle with the blacks on a daily basis, B) He is a muslim (um....no? Just look at pastor fiasco), C) One person had the gall to say that they had enough of Hussein (zomg, he is Saddam's brotha!!!!!:laugh:). If you watch the Daily Show you would see the people say these things, but I think it is just sad and dumb how people don't really think about the issues when they vote, just the appearance.



The businesses are already outsourcing a lot, so I would say the more you do that, the more you should get taxed. You don't outsource, you receive benefits. That, I think, would help slow it down, but nothing can be done to really stop it. We are losing our status as the most powerful nation. China and India are becoming the top players now. Maybe one day, they will outsource and we will work for half the price they do.

Red
06-02-2008, 01:32 PM
lol
The businesses are already outsourcing a lot, so I would say the more you do that, the more you should get taxed.

This is EXACTLY the kind of counter intuitive thinking that politicians spew that blows my mind.

You do realize that slapping ANYMORE taxes on companies will only INCREASE outsourcing right?????

It's also a BIG reason companies outsource in countries with low/no business tax that are more pro-business because they realize that having more business of any kind is good, as opposed to basically punishing them for making money. .

How in the hell would increasing operating and tax costs on business encourage them to grow domestically rather than outsource overseas?

I cannot believe people actually advocate such positions then wonder why the fuck it just gets worse.

I don't care what kind of deluded justifications you tell yourself or others for increasing corporate taxes, in the end it only fucks everyone, mainly employees and customers. Corporations with more money = more jobs, corporations with higher expenses = less jobs at home. I can't make it any simpler than that.

It's having policy makers with the same lack of common economic sense that's fucking us in the ass.

Lol, that made my day, wow.

PotshotPolka
06-02-2008, 01:40 PM
This is EXACTLY the kind of counter intuitive thinking that politicians spew that blows my mind.

You do realize that slapping ANYMORE taxes on companies will only INCREASE outsourcing right?????

It's also a BIG reason companies outsource in countries with low/no business tax that are more pro-business because they realize that having more business of any kind is good, as opposed to basically punishing them for making money. .

How in the hell would increasing operating and tax costs on business encourage them to grow domestically rather than outsource overseas?

I cannot believe people actually advocate such positions then wonder why the fuck it just gets worse.

I don't care what kind of deluded justifications you tell yourself or others for increasing corporate taxes, in the end it only fucks everyone, mainly employees and customers. Corporations with more money = more jobs, corporations with higher expenses = less jobs at home. I can't make it any simpler than that.

It's having policy makers with the same lack of common economic sense that's fucking us in the ass.

Lol, that made my day, wow.

Damn right
http://thewalk.com/wp/media/ronpaulsign.jpg

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 01:47 PM
I am saying only a tax if you increase outsourcing.You would not get the tax if you are within certain boundaries. Do you not read everything I say?

If you let them run amok, that would not help the situation at all. Do you like sitting down with your thumb up your ass because it smells nice?

Red
06-02-2008, 01:49 PM
I read what you said, and you said "Tax them if they outsource more" what the hell did I miss there?

Let them run as they do now, just drop taxes on them. Can you imagine the insane amount of businesses both new domestic and foreign that would come set up shop here if we did that?

Look at Dubai, a blank desert that has near to no taxes had it's economic district flourish. They know they'll run out of oil eventually and that they need to become a business hub.

Look at Singapore, just a few decades ago it was fucking tiny ass jungle island in south east asia that gave ENORMOUS tax breaks to corporations that would set up shop there. Apple and Seagate were some of the first MNCs to set up shop there.

Now they're THE one of THE richest countries in the world, ranked #21 in GPD per capita and they're 1/10 the size of Delaware.

If they had followed the "lets tax the fuck out of companies to punish them" mantra, they'd still be a tropical rain forest island with nothing.

My thumbs smell like roses

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 02:38 PM
If the business doesn't want to lose money, then don't fire your long established work force for some cheaper labor just so you can save some money. Are they losing out on so much money by keeping their original workers?
The big businesses are just greedy bastards who want more money even though they have more than enough. They don't give a damn about their workforce and take advantage of capitalism so they can get ahead in life at the expense of others.

By removing taxes on corporations, they will not just flock into the US. They want places where the labor is cheapest. You would have to tell millions of people in the US that if they want to work for the business, they would have to work less for maybe half of what they used to make. Do you expect many to do that and survive here? You would have to many foreign workers come here (again) for the businesses to have a suitable workforce. Dubai had many foreign workers, which is why the businesses there flourished. The US cannot handle more mass immigration, therefore who would work?

Singapore has a heavy population of government linked corporations which largely helped with the success. Maybe this would be preferable to "taxing the fuck out of them" as you so eloquently put as it would provide some form of control over the companies screwing over people and they would not lose "vast" amounts of money. Although, this may be a little too socialist for those who fear a little equality here and there.

PotshotPolka
06-02-2008, 02:48 PM
Sigh... Where in the Constitution does it say "Thou shall not hire anyone without American citizenship or part of NAFTA (which is the shittiest deal anyways)? It doesn't. The federal government doesn't have the right to do it, so it shouldn't. If people lose their jobs then thats what happens. I don't feel for some 20 year veteran GM employee making 70 grand for bolting on tires.

P.S. It's not conservatism, it's constitutionalism.

Red
06-02-2008, 02:55 PM
The big businesses are just greedy bastards who want more money even though they have more than enough.

Isn't that the point of going into business???

What in the fuck is "enough money"?

When you're older and feel you're making "enough money", redirect your excess money to me, I'll gladly lift that burden off of you.

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 04:41 PM
I would probably give it to somebody worthy of it (sorry you do not qualify). If I had more than enough money to live comfortably, why keep it? There are many people who work harder than any of those businessmen and don't make hardly anything. But I guess being self centered has its perks. It does make you feel better when you go to bed at night apparently...:001_rolleyes:

Lux
06-02-2008, 04:55 PM
I don't hate taxes because think outside businesses.

Taxes can not only bring in money which is needed, it can direct people in the right direction.

For example cigarettes. By putting massive tax on them you reduce the amount of smokers and rake the cash in too if they don't, which can then be spent on things like help for smokers.

You also look at things such as healthcare (we don't rely on private, although I personally don't think it is a bad idea, I don't want to pay taxes which go towards a random thugs care, or anyone I don't know to be honest).

What the problem is is how taxes are spent. The government in UK seems continuously inept at doing what the population want, it is as if they plan on ruining our country? Prices are rising, the economy is in a bad patch and they won't even let us vote on quitting from the EU (allowing anyone else in the EU to just walk into the UK, plus we had to relinquish parts of our sea territory and we must abide by some stupid laws) because they know we will vote for quitting when they seem desperate to let foreigners in, and I don't know why because there is clearly too many. Also supplying them with free homes and other extra crap doesn't really help the tax rates at all



Also Italian Jew I agree you can have enough money, but I guess our standards are different, I would probably give a bit to charity if I had.....£10billion? Other I would live my dream of retiring before 30 (I am a lazy ass) and spend spend spend! Whilst I'm not going to randomly waste everything how can you with £10billion, that is a beauty I wouldn't throw away to people I don't even know and don't really care about

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 05:10 PM
I wouldn't give to charity unless I knew the people running it and how they spent the money donated to them. I would devote my money to philanthropistic projects that I would choose.

People turn away from taxes because they know the government doesn't do a good job (or at least the government doesn't do what the taxpayer wants them to do) with the money. It is the age old government vs. self rights debate still going on. Unfortunately, people are people, so a government is going to be necessary, but instead of running from the fear of taxes and corruption, it would be best to try and make the government better by choosing better leaders or whatever else.

In a few decades, the US is going to become less democratic and more centralized whether people like it or not. Can't wait for the whaaaaaaambulance period then...

Lux
06-02-2008, 05:19 PM
I can only think of one party I am happy to vote for in the UK and they will never be a major party.

There is no good choice, they all will do basically the same thing I look at the two main parties in the UK and seeing the possible Prime Minister to be he is no better than the existing people, I just don't understand why they all seem to back such stupid things, they will do anything to get more votes and avoid saying the truth because they are too scared.

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 05:24 PM
Good politicians are rare. Nobody really qualifies as an outstanding or good politician these days (some may pass as decent human beings). What people like to do is claim they uphold the ideals of those good politicians form the past, but they really don't know what the hell they are talking about. Just gotta pick the lesser of two evils these days, but they all manage to muck everything up in the long run.

phatman76
06-02-2008, 08:32 PM
Good politicians are rare. Nobody really qualifies as an outstanding or good politician these days (some may pass as decent human beings). What people like to do is claim they uphold the ideals of those good politicians form the past, but they really don't know what the hell they are talking about. Just gotta pick the lesser of two evils these days, but they all manage to muck everything up in the long run.

Reagan said all the people who would be good politicians are too smart to waste their time in Gov't, they are running corporations and busting some major ass on Wall Street.

Red
06-02-2008, 09:22 PM
I would probably give it to somebody worthy of it (sorry you do not qualify). If I had more than enough money to live comfortably, why keep it? There are many people who work harder than any of those businessmen and don't make hardly anything. But I guess being self centered has its perks. It does make you feel better when you go to bed at night apparently...:001_rolleyes:

I give money to homeless, I've volunteered at CATHOLIC food donation centers for the homeless/families in need, even though I'm agnostic. I'm not self-centered. I just believe that if you earn it, you should be able to do with it as you see fit. I don't believe the government can do a better job at helping people out than private industries, charities and churches can.

I guess making presumptions about individuals and their personal lives makes you feel validated.

Politics is one thing, but don't assume that because I believe in reaping what you sow that somehow I'm a heartless bastard.

Just because someone isn't a pseudo socialist doesn't mean they're a cold hearted bastard.

And yes, being a "self-centered" heartless capitalist helps me sleep well at night.

Slavic
06-02-2008, 09:27 PM
I still advocate the barter system. : D

Plus this thread got derailed into another omg Left/Right economic debate. Lets keep it on the current track of how stupid the US Democrats are : p

LegalSmash
06-02-2008, 09:35 PM
I give money to homeless, I've volunteered at CATHOLIC food donation centers for the homeless/families in need, even though I'm agnostic. I'm not self-centered. I just believe that if you earn it, you should be able to do with it as you see fit. I don't believe the government can do a better job at helping people out than private industries, charities and churches can.

I guess making presumptions about individuals and their personal lives makes you feel validated.

Politics is one thing, but don't assume that because I believe in reaping what you sow that somehow I'm a heartless bastard.

Just because someone isn't a pseudo socialist doesn't mean they're a cold hearted bastard.

And yes, being a "self-centered" heartless capitalist helps me sleep well at night.
Agreed.
Government giving makes people lazy... they know the check will come.. the church may eventually run out of soup that day... the check though... will come.... and you dont even need to actually NOT be able to find a job, as long as you paid something into the system at some point you can get unemployment and give a cursory thought to working... that is the problem with the current system.

Italian Jew
06-02-2008, 11:05 PM
Reagan said all the people who would be good politicians are too smart to waste their time in Gov't, they are running corporations and busting some major ass on Wall Street.

I wouldn't take anything Reagan said that involves economics seriously. He wasn't too good with the monies. He was a loon in that department.

The people running the big corporations are the backbone of the politicians. They support them so they can get a little something something passed in the legislature. They pay people to make the decisions for them.


I give money to homeless, I've volunteered at CATHOLIC food donation centers for the homeless/families in need, even though I'm agnostic. I'm not self-centered. I just believe that if you earn it, you should be able to do with it as you see fit. I don't believe the government can do a better job at helping people out than private industries, charities and churches can.

I guess making presumptions about individuals and their personal lives makes you feel validated.

Politics is one thing, but don't assume that because I believe in reaping what you sow that somehow I'm a heartless bastard.

Just because someone isn't a pseudo socialist doesn't mean they're a cold hearted bastard.

And yes, being a "self-centered" heartless capitalist helps me sleep well at night.


You can reap what you sow because that is just making a living. However, it is when you take away the ability for another to make a living and live comfortably that I disagree with. Why live your life with an excess of money when you can live just as comfortably with significantly less and allow other people to do so as well when they work as hard or even harder than you?

The government giving out does not make them lazy. Those who rely on welfare checks have lost hope because the place they worked at shut down. Granted there are many who would rather just live on welfare checks, I think the system needs to be refurbished so these people do not receive anything. The idea is to give money to people who are trying to get back on their feet, but having decades of switching policies in government spending take tolls on the efficiency of certain departments. However, if we were to leave the poor to remain poor without any aid, there numbers would not decrease. You would find the same amount or more because people like to fuck, and the poor can't afford condoms or have nothing else to do (this is the poor are just a burden on society and useless way of thinking). :closedeyes:

It would be perfect if there was only one train of thought, but having opposite opinions about every issue causes instability of the government in the long run. Shit isn't bad just because a republican had bad fiscal planning or a democrat decides to spend too much money on many projects that never see light. Shit is bad because we cannot make up our mind about what we want to do. The ironic thing is that the same thing that got us in the mess is the only thing that can try and stabilize the situation. Sometimes giving out things is not the logical thing to do, but a few years down the road it is. You can't expect one way of thinking to be the answer indefinitely. Gotta switch things up before the mistakes of the past catch up with us.

LegalSmash
06-02-2008, 11:45 PM
Lol

LegalSmash
06-02-2008, 11:46 PM
I wouldn't take anything Reagan said that involves economics seriously. He wasn't too good with the monies. He was a loon in that department.

The people running the big corporations are the backbone of the politicians. They support them so they can get a little something something passed in the legislature. They pay people to make the decisions for them.




You can reap what you sow because that is just making a living. However, it is when you take away the ability for another to make a living and live comfortably that I disagree with. Why live your life with an excess of money when you can live just as comfortably with significantly less and allow other people to do so as well when they work as hard or even harder than you?

The government giving out does not make them lazy. Those who rely on welfare checks have lost hope because the place they worked at shut down. Granted there are many who would rather just live on welfare checks, I think the system needs to be refurbished so these people do not receive anything. The idea is to give money to people who are trying to get back on their feet, but having decades of switching policies in government spending take tolls on the efficiency of certain departments. However, if we were to leave the poor to remain poor without any aid, there numbers would not decrease. You would find the same amount or more because people like to fuck, and the poor can't afford condoms or have nothing else to do (this is the poor are just a burden on society and useless way of thinking). :closedeyes:

It would be perfect if there was only one train of thought, but having opposite opinions about every issue causes instability of the government in the long run. Shit isn't bad just because a republican had bad fiscal planning or a democrat decides to spend too much money on many projects that never see light. Shit is bad because we cannot make up our mind about what we want to do. The ironic thing is that the same thing that got us in the mess is the only thing that can try and stabilize the situation. Sometimes giving out things is not the logical thing to do, but a few years down the road it is. You can't expect one way of thinking to be the answer indefinitely. Gotta switch things up before the mistakes of the past catch up with us.

actually, policies havent changed much since "Great society" lyndon johnson and the late 60s, in the 50s and before it was called "being on the dole" and it was an embarrassment. The past 3 democrat presidents have expanded the programs federally and the state based ones have been expanded through pork spending, dog marking funds, etc. MORE government is NOT good, because the government works like an artillery cannon, it CANT be specific and surgical, it is incapable of it, I know I used to work for it.

Just look at HLS or Fema. It wasnt that bush didnt care about black people, its that fema has 90304940 papers to fill out before it can requisition supplies, its part of something called the federal acquisition rules FAR, that EVERYONE who wants ANYTHING from the govt, as a govt agent, worker, etc. MUST fill out.

The word "oversight" means two vastly different things for federal agencies. At the congressional level it means "watching over things to make sure my constituents get what they want, at the lower level it means "more people working here that after 6 mos have such iron clad job security that they could fuck off on myspace all day and short of embezzlement or a felony, I cannot rid myself of them.

Go to a social security office and ask to speak to an ALJ, after that harrowing experience, come back and tell me how "nice" it was to deal with the black, obese, angry secretary who thinks she is doing you a favor by doing the job she is paid to do.

As for "significantly more than you need" in reaping what you sow, that is utter crap, if your work is valuable you should be compensated handsomely.

A janitor is NOT a lawyer, or a doctor, or a chief financial officer. He is a janitor, he scrubs shit off toilets. I dont have to postpone my life 7-9-10-15 years in order to LEARN and take in DEBT out the ass to be a janitor. Its not a matter of how "hard" they work, its the value of their work to the rest of the GDP. That may sound heartless, but its capitalism and economically sound reasoning.

We live in a country that rewards you for being useful to society:
ergo, a brain surgeon: useful to society, he spends 10-12 years ON TOP of high school to get the degree, and several more interning, kissing ass, working in some african/hatian/bolivian shithole 3rd world country to get experience and "residency" and then he STARTS to pay the money back he borrowed. That man, by all means, should make obscene money.

Lou'anne, Tarqueesha, and Elena may be nice people, but they got knocked up by pable, ron, and ted respectively, and all work in the same Wal-mart and make near minimum wage. They have multiple kids and are on the public dole....

let me break this down

the surgeon, making 250K a year, pays roughly 6.2% if he works for someone else's hospital, or 12.4 if hes a solo practicioner in social security and medicare. He pays 39.6% in federal taxes and if he lives in Most state except FL, or NH he pays a minimum of an additional 2-10% in state income tax.

that leaves him with less than 50% of his pay to cover his 500K student loan debt, his malpractice insurance, and his rent, because he cannot afford to buy.

It gets better,

The genetic defectives working at the Wal-Mart are each on the dole, they get a minimum 300-500 per child, dependant on state, a check to "supplement" their income, medicaid (read: free medical care at state and federal facillities, further at the public dollar) and food stamps... to make the deal even better their retard offspring get free lunch at schools, and a free education, despite their not giving a shit about it and generally ruining it for the rest of the students, because the little crotch droppings cant behave.

It gets even better:

All of our beloved group of wasted sperm smoke cigarettes constantly, and are morbidly obese, one day, one of them, playing grabass at work falls off the ladder. He now gets "long term disability" and applies for social security, after the 3 stages, he has a hearing and some bleed heart judge awards him disability income, an additional 900 for himself a month, and a supplemental amount per child.

Despite the fact that the SSA is supposed to check every 2 years for rehabilitation, they dont do it that often, and people get to stay on disability for 5-10-15-20 years AFTER they were injured when they are clearly and medically no longer disabled.

And for icing on the cake:

When one of these tards goes to the Doctor one day, he finds a 14 inch lump of cancer in his asshole.... NOW, it gets pretty, because he is on medicaid, and the state hospital just bills the govt with reckless abandon, the taxpayers get to cover his $500 a bottle cancer medicine/treatment/ass creame, etc.

You are telling me that the surgeon, or the attorney, or the scientist, or shit, even the teacher, doesnt work harder, put in more effort, sacrifice their youth, etc. more than the other folks shown here?


You are telling me I should pay for this prick, help string him along and be happy about it? Seriously?

Red
06-03-2008, 12:07 AM
You are telling me I should pay for this prick, help string him along and be happy about it? Seriously?

I think people are forgetting that we are in America, not Europe.

People don't immigrate here expecting handouts, they immigrate here hoping to work their ass off to create a better life. We don't have a caste system, ANYBODY can come here and make OBSCENE amounts of money and if they put the effort into it then they should be able to, and ARE able too, despite people that think it's "excessive".

It's the guilt-ridden 2nd, 3rd, 4th++ generation kids who have the notion that America should be a socialist state. Despite the fact that it goes against all the tenets that this country was built on.

Italian Jew
06-03-2008, 01:26 AM
Anybody can be a doctor, lawyer, teacher (short of mentally retarded, although in some states you do get those). You give people the right amount of money and education, they can do loads.

Government can be used "surgically" when needed. Our government can't do it because we are getting too big to be a stabilized Democratic-Republic. The bigger the country, the more control the government needs over the people for it to efficiently run, but I doubt anybody is going to go out into the streets and proclaim a dictatorship without getting beat down by some good ol' fashioned "patriots".

That janitor or other lowly position that you find without value does perform an important part of society. Its called cleaning up shit that other people won't clean up because they think they are above everyone else. Let's see what happens when every low-valued worker doesn't do their work. Wonder if you would understand their true value then. Its not about numbers on a piece of paper or how many years your daddy put you through med-school or any of that bullshit. Its about the effort you put into society.


For the paranoia on socialism:
Yeah, I forgot how compromising the founding fathers were when it came to things. I am sure it says SOCIALISM BAD in the preamble :001_huh:...not that I said anything about switching to pure socialism, just that at times, some socialism is necessary for improvement at this time.

Hmmm...I am sure our current state is what they had in mind when they wrote the constitution. Yep, they all planned the polar opposition between factions, the ineffective bullshit that politicians have done for hundreds of years, forgetting about the citizen, destroying our economy from the inside, etc. Also mentioned the part where they felt it was the sworn duty to interfere with every foreign nationality that didn't do things their way...

Maybe it will be one or two things, but it is a blend of socialism, capitalism, conservatism, liberalism and whatever "ism" you want to through in there because I really don't care what kind it is. Nobody should care what kind of "ism" it is. Having your parents talk about the communist and socialist monster hiding under your bed doesn't do anything except make people close minded. Hell, the founding fathers knew the government needed to adapt and stated that if it needed to be changed, it is the duty of the people to perform the change for the better. Of course, nowadays there is hardly any middle ground between people...

Oh noes, you like less government...you must be a dixie loving confederate if I am preaching pure socialism...:sleep:

Red
06-03-2008, 01:37 AM
Its not about numbers on a piece of paper or how many years your daddy put you through med-school or any of that bullshit. Its about the effort you put into society.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Didn't realize doctors were bullshit. Btw MANY people put themselves through school without "daddy's help". I know for a fact Legalsmash is up to his ass in debt now. He didn't come from a well-to-do family that paid his way through law school. Also not everybody can finish Med school or Law school. Some people simply do not have the ability too, I don't care how much money you throw at them.

Also I do not equate the effort that janitors put into society with that of Electrical Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers or any other person who spent years studying. No fucking Janitor invented the fucking internet or the computer or any of its respective component hardware, nor did they invent the artificial heart. Granted janitors perform a necessary duty, but to somehow hold them up to the same high standards of those who spend years learning how to perform a trade is just asinine.

Reality check on aisle one, we need a reality check on aisle one.

Italian Jew
06-03-2008, 01:59 AM
Never said doctors were bullshit. I said using a monetary system to judge value was bullshit.

Just raise people the right way and they can do whatever. You start them off wrong, then of course they cannot achieve their full potential. All people have to do is try. There is no genetic code for law students or medical students. Legal took out loans I assume and therefore received the resources necessary to attend law school. Some people cannot get loans and could have done just as well as he did.

The electrical engineer could not stomach the work a janitor does, nor would he be able to perform any of his work without the janitor doing his job. They both are human beings that do important things. The amount of time spent getting to their position doesn't mean anything practically. All it amounts to is some guy who thinks he deserves more respect because he decided to take some more years of school.

Is being a soldier a respectful job? Duh! However, they do not spend a dozen years after high school in classes and most do not get paid what they deserve. You should also note that some people go to school or a great job after joining the armed forces. They had previously lacked money and "super special" education needed for the "valued" citizens, but they do better than most other regular people. So once they get the resources others had, they do just as well or better...hmmm...It must be a conspiracy.

LegalSmash
06-03-2008, 07:53 AM
1. Anybody can be a doctor, lawyer, teacher (short of mentally retarded, although in some states you do get those). You give people the right amount of money and education, they can do loads.

Actually, law school, medical school, and "hard" majors like sciences, engineering, physics, etc. have some of the highest drop out rates. I dont think they teach that in "native american socialist percussion instruments" class. NOT everyone can do these careers, as it takes a lifetime of dedication, a great deal of self sacrifice, and holding yourself to a professional code, something most imbeciles are incapable of doing.

2. Government can be used "surgically" when needed. Our government can't do it because we are getting too big to be a stabilized Democratic-Republic. The bigger the country, the more control the government needs over the people for it to efficiently run, but I doubt anybody is going to go out into the streets and proclaim a dictatorship without getting beat down by some good ol' fashioned "patriots".

what part of the last 60 years in this country's regulatory history have you missed? Inefficiency is rampant. Spending is out of control because the solution appears to be "more money for the more money hole" I swear the way's and means committee and senate appropriations committee must have a strip club in the office with gold plated whores that only take hundreds for a half second of anything. If anything the past 60 years have proven that the bloating of the government has been detrimental to its ability to provide necessary services, and you are advocating MOAR? Let me put it this way, eventually, a fat bitch gets fat enough that her fingers cannot dial the numbers on a touch pad phone, it can only mash its hand on the phone. THAT is what is happening with our alphabet soup of agencies, commissions, reporting groups, scout parties, and dildo socials that make up the fed and state "support system

3. That janitor or other lowly position that you find without value does perform an important part of society. Its called cleaning up shit that other people won't clean up because they think they are above everyone else. Let's see what happens when every low-valued worker doesn't do their work. Wonder if you would understand their true value then. Its not about numbers on a piece of paper or how many years your daddy put you through med-school or any of that bullshit. Its about the effort you put into society.

And a doctor's effort is infinitely more useful, socially beneficial, and difficult to replace than the janitor. We have an endless flow of uneducated people either being popped out of dirty vagina or getting off a boat, we are in no shortage of Janitors. Try to find yourself a boatload of neurosurgeons however.... Low value workers dont work? Replace them with the hundreds of thousands of immigrants, potential immigrants, and others that would KILL to do the job for the chance at America... this is why you dont see too many Unionized anything in FL, its a right to work state: I dont HAVE to join your BS union if I choose not to, and no Union can force an employer into an exclusivity contract. ROFL. Low value worker stoppage.... more like better immigrant worker replacement, amirite?

4. For the paranoia on socialism:
Yeah, I forgot how compromising the founding fathers were when it came to things. I am sure it says SOCIALISM BAD in the preamble :001_huh:...not that I said anything about switching to pure socialism, just that at times, some socialism is necessary for improvement at this time.

actually no, its not. It works on paper if you do PCP, but you toss in humans, and our lovely proclivity to fuck each other over, and it goes down faster than a watermelon at a baptist barbeque. Socialism leads to more social discord and a lack of desire and impetus to work hard at all, because there is no way to advance past the lowest common denominator: see cuba.

5. Hmmm...I am sure our current state is what they had in mind when they wrote the constitution. Yep, they all planned the polar opposition between factions, the ineffective bullshit that politicians have done for hundreds of years, forgetting about the citizen, destroying our economy from the inside, etc. Also mentioned the part where they felt it was the sworn duty to interfere with every foreign nationality that didn't do things their way...

Actually as to part 1, they did plan on diametrically opposed view points bashing into each other until they met a compromise: read the federalist papers (all of them), and the letter exchanges between the founding fathers, they intended for this to be this way. So people dont pass stupid ass laws at random wantonly. Look at the constitutional scheme for checks and balances... conflict it written into the system they put together... you wont find that in chomsky's book though. As for part 2, ill grant that the founding fathers were isolationists in theory, but less than 20 years after the revolution we started some shit with tripoli, britain, and canada so I am not sure how isolationist we really are

6. Maybe it will be one or two things, but it is a blend of socialism, capitalism, conservatism, liberalism and whatever "ism" you want to through in there because I really don't care what kind it is. Nobody should care what kind of "ism" it is. Having your parents talk about the communist and socialist monster hiding under your bed doesn't do anything except make people close minded. Hell, the founding fathers knew the government needed to adapt and stated that if it needed to be changed, it is the duty of the people to perform the change for the better. Of course, nowadays there is hardly any middle ground between people...

ROFL. Go read what the founding fathers said again, and stop putting it in thumb screws. The founding fathers were actually fairly lasseifaire in their beliefs... read: the opposite of government regulation. Further, look at the previous document to the constitution, the AOC, EVEN more conservative, decentralized, and independent. The founding fathers would roll in their graves at the bloated gastropod we call the government.


Oh noes, you like less government...you must be a dixie loving confederate if I am preaching pure socialism...:sleep:

Point being?

LegalSmash
06-03-2008, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=Italian Jew;54956]Never said doctors were bullshit. I said using a monetary system to judge value was bullshit.

But its what matters. That "cult of the child, everyone is awesome" special olympics mentality is the problem with todays world. Not everyone is going to be an astronaut, and it would be a crime to treat an astronaut as the same as a welfare queen walmart worker

Just raise people the right way and they can do whatever. You start them off wrong, then of course they cannot achieve their full potential. All people have to do is try. There is no genetic code for law students or medical students. Legal took out loans I assume and therefore received the resources necessary to attend law school. Some people cannot get loans and could have done just as well as he did.

No, there are a lot of rich retards who were raised with the best of everything and they suck at life.... its not "raise them right" its "have pride in self to strive for greater things". People CAN get loans, my credit was shit at first, I took a job and built it up, have worked since 15 and applied multiple times before getting my funding: its called perseverence... its the genetic code of successful people.

The electrical engineer could not stomach the work a janitor does, nor would he be able to perform any of his work without the janitor doing his job. They both are human beings that do important things. The amount of time spent getting to their position doesn't mean anything practically. All it amounts to is some guy who thinks he deserves more respect because he decided to take some more years of school.

actually they do harder work. When a janitor doesnt mop and someone dies from a fall, his BOSS gets sued. When an engineer fucks up a building, HE gets a manslaughter charge PER death AND loses his license. More responsibility = work more valuable

Is being a soldier a respectful job? Duh! However, they do not spend a dozen years after high school in classes and most do not get paid what they deserve. You should also note that some people go to school or a great job after joining the armed forces. They had previously lacked money and "super special" education needed for the "valued" citizens, but they do better than most other regular people. So once they get the resources others had, they do just as well or better...hmmm...It must be a conspiracy.

no, soldiers get montgomery GI bill, health care, food, housing, and discounts on many things. you CHOOSE to join in consideration of these perks. Read the contract closely, junior

Lux
06-03-2008, 08:18 AM
I agree. Most of the people without jobs are stupid, would rather live off our taxes or work illegally.

I don't owe anything to stupid people, sorry the only job you could get is garbage man and it has run out of vacancies, maybe you should of listened better in class. People to lazy or don't mind a livable cash sum from taxpayers should be shot, they are a waste to society. People who work illegally and then claim benefits are just fuckers.

Thing is it won't ever change, we are too nice to people now you can't do anything without breaching some sort of "rights" they "deserve".

LegalSmash
06-03-2008, 08:34 AM
I agree. Most of the people without jobs are stupid, would rather live off our taxes or work illegally.

I don't owe anything to stupid people, sorry the only job you could get is garbage man and it has run out of vacancies, maybe you should of listened better in class. People to lazy or don't mind a livable cash sum from taxpayers should be shot, they are a waste to society. People who work illegally and then claim benefits are just fuckers.

Thing is it won't ever change, we are too nice to people now you can't do anything without breaching some sort of "rights" they "deserve".


Indeed. Sadly, the people that advocate for these rights don't know a fundamental right if it bit them in the ass.

Red
06-03-2008, 10:29 AM
Well as usual Legal said everything that needs to be said, though it'll be fun to watch the retort of Jew's young skull full of mush after he's read the rest of Chomsky and finished another Moore flick.

I think everything has been said for "Our side", the redneck side. Any rebuttal will be merely comical at best.

Let the workers keep their money and give it to those they please, not the government, which is about as surgical as an atomic bomb.

I'm done with this topic, I'll leave it to time to teach Jew the realities of reality (read: Getting a fulltime job and paying taxes out the ass for medicare/social security insert any other retarded welfare program).

Italian Jew
06-03-2008, 12:49 PM
Obviously if the government is fucking up it can't be surgical, which is why I said this government needs a shake up. Other governments in the past have been able to deal with things with greater control, but it is always the fear of change that strikes (zomg, a socialistic idea leads to the whole thing becoming socialist!!! ZOMFGZORS, RUNNNNN!!!!)

You also fail to realize that people have had more problems in their life than you Legal, so I am sure picking up a job and building up credit is easy to do under EVERY circumstance. :huh:

Reality is what you make it out to be. Real reality is beyond anyone's comprehension because nobody knows the only perfect way to do things. People just pepper the area with their points of view, which you do and claim it as the only facts (poor upbringing maybe? Outside of the box thinking lead to timeouts?)

Clinging to what the law says is one thing, but all of that is on paper. You may think because it is written, that is how it will happen, but that is the flaw of lawyers. They have no real sense of how humanity interacts, just how to make money of how they react.

Most "imbeciles" cannot pursue those careers because they lack the resources necessary, as I said before. Learning stuff is easy, you just have to have access to everything you need. That's why humans are humans, they can learn better than other animals. It just depends what road you go down, but at the beginning, you, me, Tampax man, and everyone else has the same chance of becoming a lawyer, doctor, astronaut, etc. You just gotta stop pretending you are special.

So, yeah, just sit back. Enjoy your way of thinking which is real to you and I will enjoy mine. Its morons that think their way is right and won't listen to others that fuck up the world. When things change, what will you say then? Will you finally open your eyes and minds then, or just sit at home wanking to the broken ideals of the past?

I am done with this wild tangent we all went on.

PotshotPolka
06-03-2008, 04:41 PM
How do you all find the time to write all this out........