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LegalSmash
05-30-2008, 09:20 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/552776.html

SOCIALISM: work your ass off... for no pay.... modern socialist economy my ass Raul, I hope they revolt now that they have cell phones.

Italian Jew
05-30-2008, 09:25 PM
Meh, maybe they don't feel like revolting....unless someone (USA) would pay them to revolt...

BAY OF PIGS: THE SEQUEL!!!!!!

^^^
(Certificate of lulziness)

Not working because they feel they aren't getting paid enough; sounds like something from...CAPITALISM!!! :D

LegalSmash
05-30-2008, 09:43 PM
Bay of Pigs affected a lot of my family. Its one of many reasons why not a one of them will ever vote for a democrat, the same applies to many other cubans, then dhimmicrats have systematically fucked over the Cuban people SINCE kennedy.

These people wont work because it makes no sense to expend labor for so little, especially when the govt gives you a check at the end of the month anyway.

Its unfortunate that they suffer as much as they do.

Slavic
05-30-2008, 10:55 PM
Meh, maybe they don't feel like revolting....unless someone (USA) would pay them to revolt...

BAY OF PIGS: THE SEQUEL!!!!!!

^^^
(Certificate of lulziness)

Not working because they feel they aren't getting paid enough; sounds like something from...CAPITALISM!!! :D

more like BAY OF PIGS: THE SQUEL!!!!!!

He should pull a Fidel and kick out US enterprise which would make that $7 a month job a lot more enticing.

phatman76
05-30-2008, 11:01 PM
LEGAL, your opinion on the bay of pigs fiasco is similar to my revulsion of carter abandoning the Iranian shah and let the country turn into what it is, forcing my relatives (jewish) to leave. The only person worse at foreign policy than JFK in cuba was Carter. I hope Raul Castro suffers from a revolt that not only destroys his fascist communist dictatorship but also ends in his and his brother's death.

Italian Jew
05-30-2008, 11:07 PM
I can really smell the love in the air...

Red
05-31-2008, 12:17 AM
Having family that had to flee Vietnam thanks to the French, then the USA pull out thanks to chicken shit politics. I'm also in the same boat.

I have no love for commie douchebags and American politicians that cower to them and hippie activists at home.

LegalSmash
05-31-2008, 12:34 AM
What amazes me about the people that "like" cuba, and that say they "visited" is that they stay in havana, where el comandante lets you stay, they visit the places that take "dolares" and the concept that a poor cuban person going apeshit over a DOLLAR tip makes them feel both charitable and frugal (over here, the douche waiter believes he is warranted 20% no matter how shitty the service).

Cuba has been in a quagmire economically not because we embargo, but because the Castro regime has systematically kept the country in an economic model that is neither palpable or sustainable. we are NOT the only country on earth that they COULD trade with, and MOST of the rest of the world DOES trade with them, yet they still struggle to meet basic necessities.

As for foreign policy, I trust a dhimmicrat with FP about as much as I trust a retard with a pneumatic jackhammer near a primed nuclear weapon. Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, and Clinton collectively managed to ass fuck so many formerly semi-first world countries that they should have an porno tape.

Now that fidel is off the top nod, his gay, stumbling, muttering fuck of a brother will soon (god willing) lose control, and perhaps, if the next president isnt a bleeding, dundering vagina (literally, or figuratively, take it as you will) we can actually effectuate some positive change on the people of Cuba, at their discretion as a people.

another thing: Che guevara was a murderer, not some sort of messiah as it is painfully obvious bored, suburban white people and "alternative thought" blacks who worship the guys dead balls like they are made of creme brulet see m to think he is. The shirt makes you look like a fucktard, and its no different than wearing a Josef Mengele or Adolph Hitler shirt in Israel.

Red
05-31-2008, 12:39 AM
http://cache.spreadshirt.com/users/63000/62441/motives/62441_529913_big.gif
http://cache.spreadshirt.com/users/63000/62441/motives/62441_461119_big.gif

LegalSmash
05-31-2008, 12:58 AM
LEGAL, your opinion on the bay of pigs fiasco is similar to my revulsion of carter abandoning the Iranian shah and let the country turn into what it is, forcing my relatives (jewish) to leave. The only person worse at foreign policy than JFK in cuba was Carter. I hope Raul Castro suffers from a revolt that not only destroys his fascist communist dictatorship but also ends in his and his brother's death.

I feel for you, I find it apalling that Iran and Lebanon, both once progressive middle eastern countries have turned into fundamentalist havens for terrorists, places where JUDGES conspire to have 14 year old girls hung and stoned for telling them they had not committed acts they were accused of.

Red
05-31-2008, 10:20 AM
No time to spare, can't spare any time.

Italian Jew
05-31-2008, 11:36 PM
Let's all live life with a long hatred for something! :w00t:

I mean, whoever heard of listening to other people, or not judging based on rash generalizations of shit that happened a long time ago?

I thought people were better than that...

Red
05-31-2008, 11:43 PM
Vietnam, Cuba, Iran were not a "long time ago"

Italian Jew
06-01-2008, 12:05 AM
*cough* semantics *cough*



All night long....ALL NIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!!!:laugh:

LegalSmash
06-08-2008, 12:55 AM
Let's all live life with a long hatred for something! :w00t:

I mean, whoever heard of listening to other people, or not judging based on rash generalizations of shit that happened a long time ago?

I thought people were better than that...


*cough* semantics *cough*

When did your folks come to this country? Did they come under duress? If not, then you really can't understand, but I think it's pointless to try to get you to understand the sentiments displayed here by myself, red, or phatman, I think I'm more likely to be successful at getting a date with Natalie Portman by walking up and smearing panda shit in her face.

If you ARE the child, grandchild, great grandchild of immigrants that came here due to hardship to seek a better life from some form of tyranny, be it imposed through some vein of the red spread and "socialism", then you are a shame to your people.. Jew, Italian or otherwise.

Italian Jew
06-08-2008, 07:38 PM
Why...WHY bump this thread? Just let it go...we know you hate everything socialist, "red", Italian, jewish, anything that has nothing to do with you...just take some Midol and realize this thread is dead (has been for a few days).

Red
06-08-2008, 09:07 PM
Because your mind raping views continue to blow our brains and we're just trying to understand their origins.

LegalSmash
06-08-2008, 09:39 PM
I don't hate Italians, or Jews. I don't hate you either... you misunderstand my "learned colleague"

The result of trying to understand Italian Jew's Views:

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/3b/Youch.jpg

It was bumped because you basically marginalized the experience of useful, good immigrants in your last posts, while deep throating socialist, Islamophile ideas endlessly... Its a matter to be addressed.... possibly evidence of self loathing, if you are the son, grandson, or great grandson of immigrants.

Its the same reason that people bring up interesting comments by Pastor Wright in reference to Barrack 'Magic' Obama, its probative and relevant to the matter at hand.

PotshotPolka
06-08-2008, 09:41 PM
Because your mind raping views continue to blow our brains and we're just trying to understand their origins.

Basically he doesn't want to work hard in life, and luffs your monies...

Edit: Btw Legal I'm going to post that picture on my fridge, great dieting plan.

And give Italian a break, he hasn't had years of disillusionment and (dare I say) angst built up against democrats attempting to pour money into programs that usually go belly up.

phatman76
06-08-2008, 11:03 PM
Basically he doesn't want to work hard in life, and luffs your monies...

Edit: Btw Legal I'm going to post that picture on my fridge, great dieting plan.

And give Italian a break, he hasn't had years of disillusionment and (dare I say) angst built up against democrats attempting to pour money into programs that usually go belly up.

True. Public education in Los Angeles succeeds at one thing, turning you into a die-hard, anti-big-government cynic or a blind, idealistic whore of the liberals.

Italian Jew
06-08-2008, 11:07 PM
Basically he doesn't want to work hard in life, and luffs your monies...

Edit: Btw Legal I'm going to post that picture on my fridge, great dieting plan.

And give Italian a break, he hasn't had years of disillusionment and (dare I say) angst built up against democrats attempting to pour money into programs that usually go belly up.

Did I say I didn't want to work hard in life? :confused1:


I guess life is rough on them banana boats, but whatev. Of course my family came as immigrants and struggled just as everyone else's. I fail to see how I am a shame to my people. I learn from the past, especially not to keep generalized hate towards an idea or a people. You may try hate specific people for making your life shit, but you really cannot understand anything about hate unless you were there in person. Seeing as it was in the past, I believe things change. I believe the CSA became part of the United States again because of people who understood this idea.

My ideas of actually being a human being first rather than a descendant of an immigrant, a republican/democrat (yeah, lets go generalizing folks! :laugh:), or even an American in most situations. Yes my ideas may seem mind blowing, but it is because you do not think the way I think. I am more of a biological minded person, seeing humanity as a species that can be easily swayed, but at the same time both controllable and uncontrollable. If you want to hold onto your old ideals, more power to you, but I am more interested in newer, better ways of governing ourselves.

Sure, many people in the past were criticized for their ideas, but the idea that we were not the center of the universe or the concepts of physics managed to endure all kinds of shit. Life is just a big experiment (not saying everything would be allowed. I would prefer if certain atrocities could be prevented and human dignity be preserved), so you have to change things up every once in a while to find something that works (the best thing would be for everyone to be at the best possible position they can be. Not saying equality because that can't work with humans as we tend to let greed run things, but right now, things can be much better.) I am not looking for the perfect way of life, government, or general way to run things, just something better. If I am criticized, just know it is because I believe in something better; I always will. Hell, you guys might get a few chuckles and start giggling like little school girls, but hey, it is the lulz and if it makes you laugh a bit, things have gotten a bit better.


Well, there is my massive wall of text for those who feel so inclined to read the bloody thing. If the wonder twins feel like a gang tackle, they can try...its all they got left.

phatman76
06-09-2008, 12:20 AM
My ideas of actually being a human being first rather than a descendant of an immigrant, a republican/democrat (yeah, lets go generalizing folks! :laugh:), or even an American in most situations.


There it is, the fundamental problem. The belief in some inherent connection between humans that makes us all capable of being friends.

Humans are inherently evil, inherently doomed to failure, to greed, to crime, to death. It is by the mechanism of government that we sacrifice some of our rights so that a lesser (hopefully) evil - government - may protect us from the much greater evil of individuals or groups bent on destruction of what civilization we have. As we stand in the world today, we cannot call ourselves "citizen's of humanity" or "global citizen's" because there are still people on this planet who will not bend to the rule of democracy, will not bend to the laws of society, and will do anything and everything possible to end your life. Picture it, there are millions, literally millions of people, who would not hesitate to kill you, who would not think twice, if it meant it advanced the causes of totalitarianism and dictatorship (theocratic, socialist, or otherwise).

That is why I am an American citizen. My nation is one that will not hesitate to go to the ends of the earth to protect my sacred right to life, to property, a free market of both ideas and products, and my right to prosperity. I would even go so far as to call myself a citizen of the Western world, despite some of its blemishes, which also widely believes in this freedom (alas, however, some nations like France are sliding backwards, making it a crime now to speak your mind).

However, a citizen of humanity? never. I despise humanity. Humanity caused the holocaust, humanity caused the Soviet Empire, humanity has caused religious and idealogical persecution, almost completely unabated, for the last 6,000 years, in different forms of course. The human condition, the inability of humans to do anything right, led some of the greatest minds ever, in a selfless moment of insight and idealism, to create the democracy, the republic, the federal state, a bastion of design and rules to hold back the most dangerous forms of human corruption and provide some semblance of true liberty. That same human condition of greed and intolerance led to some of the greatest crimes of our time, needless to say, you know well of them.

Few people, ever, can or bother to think this abstractly, but it is this type of thinking that shows the true genius of the United States and constitutional democracy/republic. It is the realization that government by the people protects us from those who would do us harm that is the root of true American patriotism. That is an idea worth fighting for. Indeed, that is an idea worth dying for.

LegalSmash
06-09-2008, 12:30 AM
Did I say I didn't want to work hard in life? :confused1:


I guess life is rough on them banana boats, but whatev. Of course my family came as immigrants and struggled just as everyone else's. I fail to see how I am a shame to my people. I learn from the past, especially not to keep generalized hate towards an idea or a people. You may try hate specific people for making your life shit, but you really cannot understand anything about hate unless you were there in person. Seeing as it was in the past, I believe things change. I believe the CSA became part of the United States again because of people who understood this idea.

My ideas of actually being a human being first rather than a descendant of an immigrant, a republican/democrat (yeah, lets go generalizing folks! :laugh:), or even an American in most situations. Yes my ideas may seem mind blowing, but it is because you do not think the way I think. I am more of a biological minded person, seeing humanity as a species that can be easily swayed, but at the same time both controllable and uncontrollable. If you want to hold onto your old ideals, more power to you, but I am more interested in newer, better ways of governing ourselves.

Sure, many people in the past were criticized for their ideas, but the idea that we were not the center of the universe or the concepts of physics managed to endure all kinds of shit. Life is just a big experiment (not saying everything would be allowed. I would prefer if certain atrocities could be prevented and human dignity be preserved), so you have to change things up every once in a while to find something that works (the best thing would be for everyone to be at the best possible position they can be. Not saying equality because that can't work with humans as we tend to let greed run things, but right now, things can be much better.) I am not looking for the perfect way of life, government, or general way to run things, just something better. If I am criticized, just know it is because I believe in something better; I always will. Hell, you guys might get a few chuckles and start giggling like little school girls, but hey, it is the lulz and if it makes you laugh a bit, things have gotten a bit better.


Well, there is my massive wall of text for those who feel so inclined to read the bloody thing. If the wonder twins feel like a gang tackle, they can try...its all they got left.

ROFL. Socialism has failed each time, miserably, as has communism... as applied by people, and barnyard animals, how is it "better" and "new", exactly?

The banana boat comment is racist to both asians and cubans, hatians, cambodians, loatians, and shit, even jews which the dems and liberals dont give a shit about unless they are mexicans, impoverished, or voting for "magic" Obama, but, then again, you only scream racism when they are talking about terrorists, countries that harbor terrorists, and poor people, "model minorities" that don't fit the grand scheme, i.e. the ones that WANT to work hard and keep for themselves what they make.

Rather than run to the BD's about this blatant, malicious, racial slur (which they SHOULD do something about to keep things consistent, or at least, as you so poignantly love to put it, "for the lulz"), I'll just say you are right about one thing: you are indeed a biologically minded person: your mind is full of human excrement and bodily fluid... (BTW one of the stupidest statements I've ever heard... college is a place to learn, not make up words and
smoke crack while you fap at chomsky.)

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/5d/Thatsracist.gif

Red
06-09-2008, 01:05 AM
I guess life is rough on them banana boats, but whatev.


No, it was a cake walk, my uncle thoroughly enjoyed dumping dead bodies overboard from his banana boat while he floated from Vietnam to Malaysia en route to the United States because things were so great with the new "humanist" communist leaders.

He would much rather still be in Vietnam plowing the fields rather than having had the opportunity to come here, work his ass off to put himself through school while also taking language courses then eventually working his way up to the point where he could afford a nice house with a two car garage and swimming pool. Only to see other people whining for hand-outs outs today because life's "Just too hard" when you actually have to be self reliant.

Give me a fucking break.

PotshotPolka
06-09-2008, 08:33 AM
*Whistles* Ok I'm done with this one, you all have fun burning down Italian's house yourselves.

And I guess as a closing statement... Socialist ideals arn't wrong, people are. Doctors don't want to spend a decade in graduate school and internships just to get paid as much as the guy that takes out the trash... Even though both jobs must be done. That is why there will always being upper middle lower classes, because the alternative is a stagnant society waiting eight months to get a fucking washing machine from the factories that run at 0.5% effeciency.

Red
06-09-2008, 10:49 AM
because the alternative is a stagnant society waiting eight months to get a fucking washing machine from the factories that run at 0.5% effeciency.

Yeah, but everybody would be happy doo dah

PotshotPolka
06-09-2008, 11:06 AM
American politics confuses me. :001_huh:

It's sorta like British politics but with Nuclear retaliation as a policy for defending Israel :P.

Slavic
06-09-2008, 12:58 PM
meh politics are only good for stroking massive egos. Lose the ego and everything will be just fine : D.

And lol there are a lot of us whos family came from Communist atrocities. My grandparents fled Germany in 1946 because they were being killed by Soviets. Its doesn't help though that they were Nazis : X.

Slavic
06-09-2008, 01:22 PM
Fascista!! *runs to his Katyusha and starts firing at Slavic*

lol, even so basing ideals about how distant relatives of yours were treated is utter bullshit. The same can be said by descendants of those who were abused by your current ideology. If you have a hatred against a certain ideology because of how it abused your family, then you make just as much rational sense as the Israels and the Palestinians.

Red
06-09-2008, 01:38 PM
lol, even so basing ideals about how distant relatives of yours were treated is utter bullshit.

My Uncle isn't that distant and when it did/does have a direct impact on your IMMEDIATE family's status then I don't see how it's irrational.

Red
06-09-2008, 02:41 PM
Because many of the recent posts in this thread have made references to relatives and I want to make sure he's not talking about those.

LegalSmash
06-09-2008, 05:45 PM
What I find particularly provocative about the responses (not Slavic Exclusively, but rather, the attitude I.J. had regarding relatives, coupled with comments regarding "distant relatives") is that they essentially build prima facie evidence that one of the things blighting the United States nearly exclusively is the failure to remember the humble beginnings of your own family, people, nation, etc. and the work they did for the future generations to enjoy a better life.

Taking that historical reference for granted leads to short sided political imbecilities like bandwagon liberalism at liberal arts universities, where the students basically pick whatever sounds best to alleviate a perceived "white guilt". Its as if they are ashamed of their affluence, perceived or real, and feel the need to help the "lesser people" by making life less pleasant for everyone else through taxes, entitlement programs, and forced quotas.

This is a difficult concept to comprehend for immigrants that wanted to come here for "a level playing field", meaning we all get the opportunity to succeed without a glass ceiling overhead like nobility or caste. That all men are created equal: as in "equality of creation: We all generally have a body, endowed upon us by a creator, whomever that may be, and that we will eventually die, THAT is the equality.

The Legislature and the Courts have held there is no fundamental right to welfare or education: these things are purely creatures of legislative whim, and easily crushable by a sufficient push in a political direction that does NOT support the programs. The several states provide these things because they are essentially bribed through block grants, or rankle up the money by taxing the hell out of everything...

Time after time, throughout the 20th century, its been shown that socialism doesn't work, it doesn't work because humans are injected into the equation. The thing is, its a political ideology, something that cannot exist without humans, and cannot be applied to anything BUT humans, which is why in the end it fails, and epically. What is truly laughable however, is the allegation that such a system would ever work in this country, where keeping up with and surpassing the Jones' has generally allowed our economy to flourish. Everyone being just like the Jones', or being held to the standard of the Jones' will collapse this nation, with near certainty.

phatman76
06-09-2008, 06:14 PM
Family is family, it means a lot. It doesn't, however, excuse stupid ideas or beliefs. It doesn't matter if you dragged yourself up from the dirt fields of Somalia or were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, what you say here and now is what matters. The only thing our Government should do is ensure that both the poor and the rich get a fair chance - meaning equal laws, equal rights and equal freedoms. Our government's first duty is to protect its people. It's second duty is to protect our people's rights - to life, liberty and the pursuit of property and happiness.

Спецназ
06-09-2008, 11:43 PM
I told myself that I wouldn't get involved in this argument, but for the sake of my family and personal beliefs, I must. I understand the hardships that your families have gone through. But is it really fair to blame an entire ideology for their hardships? My great uncle was a soldier in the Soviet military. He joined the Red Army during World War 2 when he was thirteen years old. He served as a military adviser in South America and eventually fought in the Soviet-Afghan war. He had lived under Stalin's rule to Gorbachev's. Yet, he loved his country. Socialism isn't a recipe for disaster, he had a good life. My family lives all over Eastern Europe, and they were never victim to the "Evil Empire". They may not have a large house with tons of cars and a pool, but both myself and my family agree that those things aren't what's truly important in life.

Also, I agree that Socialism was doomed to fail, but not for the reasons that some of you gave. From the very beginning, Socialism has been viciously attacked. During the October Revolution, the United States, Great Britain, and France all committed ground troops to fight the Bolsheviks. After the Soviet Union was established, World War 2 caused the deaths of 27 million Soviet Citizens. Then the Cold War systematically drained the Soviet economy and led to it's collapse. Even geography favors the United States. It is completely isolated from most of the hardships that plagued the Soviet Union from the beginning. The horrors of large scale war haven't touched the United States since 1865. And there hasn't been a foreign invasion of United States soil since 1812.

And then comes the topic of despising an ideology because of how it effected your family. My Cousin (son of my Great Uncle) was killed in Afghanistan in 1981. His chopper was shot down by an American stinger, and he was killed by Guerrillas supplied by the United States. I disagree with Capitalism, but I don't hold anything against people who agree with it. I have friends who are avid Capitalists. We see our differing views as a form of friendly competition and debate, not something to hate each other over.

Lastly, I disagree with the statement that the whole of humanity is corrupt, evil, and selfish. Am I the only one who still thinks that there's hope? That people are inherently good? I would hope not. I think that it's such views of distrust and paranoia that lead to the worst in people.

That's all that I think I'm going to say, I don't want to make any enemies here, but I just needed to say what I said.

Itch
06-10-2008, 12:31 AM
They may not have a large house with tons of cars and a pool, but both myself and my family agree that those things aren't what's truly important in life.


I agree


I disagree with Capitalism, but I don't hold anything against people who agree with it. I have friends who are avid Capitalists. We see our differing views as a form of friendly competition and debate, not something to hate each other over.


Personally I consider myself a Capitalist but do see a few benefits to Socialism. I'm all for a good debate, the problem is when politics and socio-economic views are the material often times people get into flame wars rather than look at the pros/cons to both sides.


Lastly, I disagree with the statement that the whole of humanity is corrupt, evil, and selfish. Am I the only one who still thinks that there's hope? That people are inherently good? I would hope not. I think that it's such views of distrust and paranoia that lead to the worst in people.

You aren't the only one that looks for the best in people. There is still hope. I'm not sure who said this, but a favorite quote of mine is "Evil flourishes where good men do nothing. Isn't it time to do something?" I like to think that this can be random acts of kindness and just general respect for your fellow man.

Just my 2 cents.

Italian Jew
06-10-2008, 12:32 AM
I told myself that I wouldn't get involved in this argument, but for the sake of my family and personal beliefs, I must. I understand the hardships that your families have gone through. But is it really fair to blame an entire ideology for their hardships? My great uncle was a soldier in the Soviet military. He joined the Red Army during World War 2 when he was thirteen years old. He served as a military adviser in South America and eventually fought in the Soviet-Afghan war. He had lived under Stalin's rule to Gorbachev's. Yet, he loved his country. Socialism isn't a recipe for disaster, he had a good life. My family lives all over Eastern Europe, and they were never victim to the "Evil Empire". They may not have a large house with tons of cars and a pool, but both myself and my family agree that those things aren't what's truly important in life.

Also, I agree that Socialism was doomed to fail, but not for the reasons that some of you gave. From the very beginning, Socialism has been viciously attacked. During the October Revolution, the United States, Great Britain, and France all committed ground troops to fight the Bolsheviks. After the Soviet Union was established, World War 2 caused the deaths of 27 million Soviet Citizens. Then the Cold War systematically drained the Soviet economy and led to it's collapse. Even geography favors the United States. It is completely isolated from most of the hardships that plagued the Soviet Union from the beginning. The horrors of large scale war haven't touched the United States since 1865. And there hasn't been a foreign invasion of United States soil since 1812.

And then comes the topic of despising an ideology because of how it effected your family. My Cousin (son of my Great Uncle) was killed in Afghanistan in 1981. His chopper was shot down by an American stinger, and he was killed by Guerrillas supplied by the United States. I disagree with Capitalism, but I don't hold anything against people who agree with it. I have friends who are avid Capitalists. We see our differing views as a form of friendly competition and debate, not something to hate each other over.

Lastly, I disagree with the statement that the whole of humanity is corrupt, evil, and selfish. Am I the only one who still thinks that there's hope? That people are inherently good? I would hope not. I think that it's such views of distrust and paranoia that lead to the worst in people.

That's all that I think I'm going to say, I don't want to make any enemies here, but I just needed to say what I said.


^^^
I believe people can be good, but they are just raised in a selfish world. At birth, they aren't really good or bad. It is once they are taught or once they learn when their path becomes clear. Our inherent idea of survival of the fittest is replaced with greed (maybe for the better, but it all depends on your POV).

Having an adverse experience from capitalism or socialism or whatever ism is because of conflict between the different isms. There wouldn't be any fuckwads complaining about differences if they just learned to let others do things their way. It is someone's insecurity about an issue that leads to problems for the rest of the world. Suffering from all your problems from communism (if it is communism or whatnot causing you to lose sleep at night)? Thank capitalism (and vice versa).

Don't be surprised if some try to bite your head off...you think differently than they do. :001_rolleyes:

EDIT: To make sure you catch our drift
5DmYLrxR0Y8

Спецназ
06-10-2008, 01:26 AM
^^^

EDIT: To make sure you catch our drift
5DmYLrxR0Y8


lol

PotshotPolka
06-10-2008, 08:52 AM
And there hasn't been a foreign invasion of United States soil since 1812.
*Cough* Aleutian Islands *Cough*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Aleutian_Islands

Red
06-10-2008, 08:55 AM
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3312/man20fingers20in20earat9.jpg

LegalSmash
06-10-2008, 08:57 AM
Thats lovely, really it is.

The thing is, there were people who were immutably silenced for disagreeing with the overarching scheme of the government under Red Russia's policies (Helloooo Gulag!), As long as you were WITH the program, and went along with it, you were given what you needed to survive, which was in essence, taken from the labor of another in order to supply a wholly unrelated individual whom may have not done anything to earn it.

As for not owning houses with "tons of pools and cars", its not a matter of whether this person had such things, but rather, that the other individuals living expenses, and in some cases, splendor, are paid for from the work of others, wholly unrelated, which should have no reason to pay for the unintended beneficiary but for a desperately flawed ideal. I have an aunt in Cuba that received a lovely floor on a duplex, which used to be wholly owned by a pharmacist who was forced to flee the country for being part of the dissent against Castro. She does not work, never had, and in all honesty, did not deserve that building. This was of course, after they beat him, threatened him with death, and locked his sons up for speaking out against the regime. Lovely experience, I am sure. The fundamental issue I have with the system is that you put in, but do not take out equally, something which I will never agree with, under any circumstances, whatsoever. Entitlement programs, civil service jobs with crazy job security making it virtually impossible to fire some one and good old fashioned patronage and cronyism are ALL vestiges of reforms in this country, brought about by Regulation and Government Expansion happy presidents, and should be done away with but for widow survivor and elderly benefits.

Ultimately, the main difficulty that exists A and B person are paying into a system to cover the cost of C and D, who are not required to work as hard or do the same. Such a system kills the desire to advance, uplift, and excel. The same applies to the governmental taking of businesses, large scale industries, and the whole flawed concept of "redistribution of wealth".

Lastly, with all due respect, everyone can wax familial about their experiences under an otherwise worldly adverse regime... I am certain that there are "Aryan" Germans still alive that remember fondly the late, great, 1930s in Berlin, the advancement, the parades, the excitement, the uniforms, and the solidarity. That doesn't make the regime any less responsible for killing the Jews and throwing the first punch in the most destructive war in history. With all due respect.

PotshotPolka
06-10-2008, 09:14 AM
Thats lovely, really it is.

The thing is, there were people who were immutably silenced for disagreeing with the overarching scheme of the government under Red Russia's policies (Helloooo Gulag!), As long as you were WITH the program, and went along with it, you were given what you needed to survive, which was in essence, taken from the labor of another in order to supply a wholly unrelated individual whom may have not done anything to earn it.

As for not owning houses with "tons of pools and cars", its not a matter of whether this person had such things, but rather, that the other individuals living expenses, and in some cases, splendor, are paid for from the work of others, wholly unrelated, which should have no reason to pay for the unintended beneficiary but for a desperately flawed ideal. I have an aunt in Cuba that received a lovely floor on a duplex, which used to be wholly owned by a pharmacist who was forced to flee the country for being part of the dissent against Castro. She does not work, never had, and in all honesty, did not deserve that building. This was of course, after they beat him, threatened him with death, and locked his sons up for speaking out against the regime. Lovely experience, I am sure. The fundamental issue I have with the system is that you put in, but do not take out equally, something which I will never agree with, under any circumstances, whatsoever. Entitlement programs, civil service jobs with crazy job security making it virtually impossible to fire some one and good old fashioned patronage and cronyism are ALL vestiges of reforms in this country, brought about by Regulation and Government Expansion happy presidents, and should be done away with but for widow survivor and elderly benefits.

Ultimately, the main difficulty that exists A and B person are paying into a system to cover the cost of C and D, who are not required to work as hard or do the same. Such a system kills the desire to advance, uplift, and excel. The same applies to the governmental taking of businesses, large scale industries, and the whole flawed concept of "redistribution of wealth".

Lastly, with all due respect, everyone can wax familial about their experiences under an otherwise worldly adverse regime... I am certain that there are "Aryan" Germans still alive that remember fondly the late, great, 1930s in Berlin, the advancement, the parades, the excitement, the uniforms, and the solidarity. That doesn't make the regime any less responsible for killing the Jews and throwing the first punch in the most destructive war in history. With all due respect.

Mr. LegalSmash tear down this wall... of text.
What was this thread about again?

Red
06-10-2008, 09:15 AM
People may "disagree" with capitalism, but they sure as shit enjoy the fruits of its labors.

Italian Jew
06-10-2008, 11:29 AM
If you are not at the bottom of the barrel. If you are at the top, you get to enjoy all the juice from the fruits of your labor. All the shit goes towards the bottom.

As for the main subject of the thread...I think it was something about how Cubans did not want to work in Cuba or something like that.

PotshotPolka
06-10-2008, 11:35 AM
If you are not at the bottom of the barrel. If you are at the top, you get to enjoy all the juice from the fruits of your labor. All the shit goes towards the bottom.

As for the main subject of the thread...I think it was something about how Cubans did not want to work in Cuba or something like that.

Oh. Dear. God.

Red
06-10-2008, 11:58 AM
Even those at the bottom still manage to buy air jordan's, spinning rim's, bluetooth headsets and remain hugely fat.

Compare that to those at the bottom of the barrel in say... Cuba or China.

Italian Jew
06-10-2008, 12:15 PM
Yeah, so many of the bottom of the barrel where I stayed in Richmond had all of that stuff...:001_rolleyes: If we are talking about the bottom of the barrel, wouldn't it be the actual bottom meaning the homeless and those without any actual property besides those rags that smell like human excrement?

Also it would be nice to point out Cuba and China don't have any barrels. America won't give Cuba any barrels and China had all their barrels taken away by the Japanese.

Red
06-10-2008, 12:46 PM
You think our homeless situation is bad??

Itch
06-10-2008, 12:49 PM
I did some work at a homeless healthcare clinic a few years back and I have to say that at least 30% and probably a lot more than that were homeless by choice.

Red
06-10-2008, 12:54 PM
We have homeless shelters and food shelters.

The homeless here cannot be compared to those in Cuba/China etc etc.

Italian Jew
06-10-2008, 03:16 PM
I never stated our homeless situation was worse, I just said that the bottom of the barrel was the homeless people when you were stating the people who had enough money to go buy those things instead of necessities. Don't take what I say out of context, but seeing as you want to bring the issue to discussion...

Any homeless situation can be taken as bad, it is just a question of whether it is at a point where it is dramatically increasing more so than it should. The homeless rates in China are affected more by natural disasters than the US, so their numbers are skewed (Cuba is also affected more by natural disasters than the US is, but at a smaller rate than China). Cuba also suffers because of the loss of support from the Soviet Union (obviously) and the embargo of the island by the US. Also keep in mind of the pressures applied to these nations by the US and other countries. It is basically strangling somebody and claiming they can't breathe because their lungs are not strong enough to breathe.

Other data that is related to homelessness:

The US has a higher percentage of the population under the poverty line than Cuba (China does not have any results for that). The US has a higher unemployment rate than both Cuba and China. I would say Cuba is doing pretty well considering the pressure it is getting from the US. China on the other hand suffers what any country with such a large population would suffer. The US does have the larger GDP per capita, but I would say we had it easier than those countries.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

^^^
State your sources if you are using statistical data or pertinent evidence to a discussion. Its the proper way of delivering an argument.:laugh:

I tried looking up real homelessness rates, but the data for each instance was gathered in a way that was either largely biased towards a group or the data was collected in an inefficient manner. I do not think you can get a serious statistic regarding homelessness using phone surveys (if they don't have a home, how are they going to answer a phone?).

^^^
Much of the inefficient data collecting was in regards to US data samples.

broncoty
06-10-2008, 05:59 PM
I never stated our homeless situation was worse, I just said that the bottom of the barrel was the homeless people when you were stating the people who had enough money to go buy those things instead of necessities. Don't take what I say out of context, but seeing as you want to bring the issue to discussion...

Any homeless situation can be taken as bad, it is just a question of whether it is at a point where it is dramatically increasing more so than it should. The homeless rates in China are affected more by natural disasters than the US, so their numbers are skewed (Cuba is also affected more by natural disasters than the US is, but at a smaller rate than China). Cuba also suffers because of the loss of support from the Soviet Union (obviously) and the embargo of the island by the US. Also keep in mind of the pressures applied to these nations by the US and other countries. It is basically strangling somebody and claiming they can't breathe because their lungs are not strong enough to breathe.

Other data that is related to homelessness:

The US has a higher percentage of the population under the poverty line than Cuba (China does not have any results for that). The US has a higher unemployment rate than both Cuba and China. I would say Cuba is doing pretty well considering the pressure it is getting from the US. China on the other hand suffers what any country with such a large population would suffer. The US does have the larger GDP per capita, but I would say we had it easier than those countries.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html

^^^
State your sources if you are using statistical data or pertinent evidence to a discussion. Its the proper way of delivering an argument.:laugh:

I tried looking up real homelessness rates, but the data for each instance was gathered in a way that was either largely biased towards a group or the data was collected in an inefficient manner. I do not think you can get a serious statistic regarding homelessness using phone surveys (if they don't have a home, how are they going to answer a phone?).

^^^
Much of the inefficient data collecting was in regards to US data samples.

http://www.wegotcards.com/cards/rude/holi/idiot.GIF

LegalSmash
06-10-2008, 08:12 PM
rofl.

phatman76
06-10-2008, 11:02 PM
I would rather be homeless here in America than anywhere else. Here at least, you can't be secretly killed for your beliefs or placed in prison for saying the wrong thing. In fact, I would rather be homeless in the USA than a very rich or powerful party tool in either China or Cuba...

Liberty and the opportunity to move up by your own work in a free market are more valuable than all the bodyguards, easy jobs, mansions and slaves in the world.

Btw, Cuba has so many above the poverty line because there is nobody wealthy to be poor in relationship to. I mean, if all you could buy were circa 1960 cars and old clothes, wouldn't you be above the poverty line too?

Italian Jew
06-11-2008, 12:57 AM
oops, it appears I made a mistake. When I said "The US has a higher percentage of the population under the poverty line than Cuba (China does not have any results for that)." it appears it is the other way around. The US has a higher percentage of population under the poverty line than China, not Cuba (Cuba doesn't have any data for that).

lol, my bad...

I am not trying to threaten your loyalties, but trying to show relative data pertinent to homelessness and poverty in respective countries. It is fine now if you think everything is peachy in the US, but possibly in the near future, you might not have the same tone about this. The economy might bust for a while rapidly changing the liberties and opportunities you cherish here.

LegalSmash
06-11-2008, 01:01 AM
He also misses the fact that these countries are under no duty to air their dirty laundry, and basically show the rest of the world that their systems are flawed. Further, having homeless, and labelling them as such are two different things. Here, the homeless live like hetmans and kings, as opposed to in other countries, but Michael Moore doesn't tell you that in the videos.

Italian Jew
06-11-2008, 01:07 AM
And you assume I watch Moore films...why? (probably the 20th time you have referenced that. I think you are running out of things to say. :scared:)

Would our country have any more duty to "air our dirty laundry" as you put it than any other country?

Is the US flawless? I don't hear ourselves noting down our flaws. But you are right I guess... we shall not trust the CIA nor other countries for that matter. Anything that makes you feel bad must be a lie.

Red
06-11-2008, 01:26 AM
What makes you think we feel bad?

LitKey
06-11-2008, 04:43 AM
What makes you think we feel bad?

Apparently you guys have bleeding hearts like him. :)

LegalSmash
06-11-2008, 08:04 AM
the Moore reference is a stereotypical reference to American College Liberal Bandwagoning. I use it because you are (sadly) a college bandwagon liberal (see the South Park episode Die Hippie Die. You will change ASAP when you start to work, if you do, and a minimum of 30-40% of your money is gone due to "entitlement.

Also, it doesnt make me feel bad that there are allegedly poor in this and other countries... there are ants in the grass, pigs in the field, and hatians in boats floating over here and getting turned away, its not sad, its funny.

Italian Jew
06-11-2008, 02:26 PM
the Moore reference is a stereotypical reference to American College Liberal Bandwagoning. I use it because you are (sadly) a college bandwagon liberal (see the South Park episode Die Hippie Die. You will change ASAP when you start to work, if you do, and a minimum of 30-40% of your money is gone due to "entitlement.

Also, it doesnt make me feel bad that there are allegedly poor in this and other countries... there are ants in the grass, pigs in the field, and hatians in boats floating over here and getting turned away, its not sad, its funny.

Maybe you miss the fact that I am liberal in some ways, conservative in others...or is your head so far up your ass you don't see beyond black and white?

Red
06-11-2008, 02:47 PM
Cuba's poverty cannot be blamed solely on us. We may have an embargo on them, but that leaves hundreds of other countries that do not.

It's their government's ineptitude that has them where they are, not us.

Jew: I think we all missed that fact.

Italian Jew
06-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I am not saying the embargo is what caused the poverty. All I was saying was that it was making the situation worse for them. They just got caught up in the cold war and being the less developed and more labor oriented country that they were, it was easier for Soviet communism to seem like a big brother to them. Unfortunately for them, communism (under any form) does not work when the dominant market is capitalist. The embargo is in place to strangle what communism they have left in them, which I do not think is very much more, nor was it close to true communism. The result which America hopes for is that Cuba let's go of its present government and market and embraces a more democratic and capitalist system. With or without US intervention, Cuba would not remain "communist" for very much longer, just that the embargo may quicken the process (or it can be seen to produce a stubborness of the Cuban leadership whereby invoking them to keep their government and market just to fight the US to the very end). Once Cuba decides to switch things up, it may take longer for them to get back on their feet to become what you would call a respectable country due to the actions made by the US.

Its basically persuasion through punishment, not rewards. This something you would do to an enemy, but would you consider Cuba a threat today?

Italian Jew
06-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Wasn't the aid in the form of a fund to promote democracy in Cuba? I know I read the articles on the BBC site, but there was nothing precise about what the money would be for besides "promoting democracy", whatever that means.

Спецназ
06-11-2008, 07:03 PM
*Cough* Aleutian Islands *Cough*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Aleutian_Islands


Oh sorry, I must have completely forgotten about the Aleutian Islands. I mean, even though Alaska wasn't even a state until 1959 and even now the population of the Aleutian Islands numbers around 8,000, I'll admit it was stupid of me to forget about a completely irrelevant chain of islands in the arctic. Maybe I should have said something along the lines of, there hasn't been a devastating invasion of the United States that actually killed tons of people and disrupted civilian infrastructure.

LegalSmash
06-11-2008, 08:17 PM
Oh sorry, I must have completely forgotten about the Aleutian Islands. I mean, even though Alaska wasn't even a state until 1959 and even now the population of the Aleutian Islands numbers around 8,000, I'll admit it was stupid of me to forget about a completely irrelevant chain of islands in the arctic. Maybe I should have said something along the lines of, there hasn't been a devastating invasion of the United States that actually killed tons of people and disrupted civilian infrastructure.

invasion of one is tantamount to an invasion to all, even if its a nature preserve, it us United State Government property.

Jew, none of your posts have ever belied the idea that you are conservative in any facet. I have no reason to imagine the unforseen or imaginary. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?:001_tt1:


Libjew Says: Unfortunately for them, communism (under any form) does not work . correction, free of charge.

There are sufficient governments and businesses that do business with the Island, the Island had two industries, tobacco, and sugar. Guess what? you need disposable income to buy/afford both, as they are luxuries... guess what the majority of third world countries DONT have?


I am not saying the embargo is what caused the poverty. All I was saying was that it was making the situation worse for them.

Brought upon themselves, he who has the Gold makes the rule... golden rule.

They just got caught up in the cold war and being the less developed and more labor oriented country that they were, it was easier for Soviet communism to seem like a big brother to them.

Similar argument to it wasnt the dumb whore's fault at all that she caught the HIV when she decided to blow the three guys at the bar. Lay down with dogs, get fleas

"and being the less developed and more labor oriented country that they were,"

WHAT? No, they were quite service oriented... hotels, entertainment, and tourism before "El Commandante decided to "liberate" everything for the people and killed off any US tourism. Even then, they still are not a "labor market", they have no manufacture or substantially developing market... they are a stagnating economy because of the effects of being led by adverse retards that insist on socialism on the side of the globe which is was nearly nonexistent.

The embargo is in place to strangle what communism they have left in them, which I do not think is very much more, nor was it close to true communism.

It never was "textbook communism", it was "be part of the National Party, you get your 6 eggs, 1 chicken, and 3 cups of powdered milk", "disagree and you die/rot in el moro." Style "communism"


The result which America hopes for is that Cuba let's go of its present government and market and embraces a more democratic and capitalist system.

That was the hope from the beginning when they were liberated from Spain, and later Castro and his thugs.


With or without US intervention, Cuba would not remain "communist" for very much longer, just that the embargo may quicken the process (or it can be seen to produce a stubborness of the Cuban leadership whereby invoking them to keep their government and market just to fight the US to the very end).

Actually the leadership didnt care at the beginning about the people that are left, and still dont care, because the people in charge are still eating quite well.

Once Cuba decides to switch things up, it may take longer for them to get back on their feet to become what you would call a respectable country due to the actions made by the US.

Actually no, the US exile community, the international exile community, and the US would pour out. Cuba has and still does produce useful, hardworking immigrants that excel in the US. We are one of the most affluent groups in the US, as minorities, we are only outranked by the Asians. Further, Cuba proper is an excellent tourist destination and was prior to 1959 a cash cow, something it will return to in time.


Its basically persuasion through punishment, not rewards.

What? We are under no duty to provide either, its a business decision, "agree with us or fuck off...", we are under no duty to reward people for doing shit that we disagree with. Thats like forcing a father to keep a child in his will if the child is gay and he doesnt agree with the kids lifestyle. Guess what? Its daddy's money, property, etc. Cuba was one of our many kids, the people there (mostly poor imbecile farmers and GASP liberal college students) overturned a weak dictatorship by an illiterate fucktard Santero Batista... If the administrations since then disagree, they are under NO DUTY to punish or reward.

This something you would do to an enemy, but would you consider Cuba a threat today?

The same way I would consider Nazis that ran away after killing 6 million jews. Passage of time does not make your crimes or in this case, transgressions any less relevant

Спецназ
06-11-2008, 08:56 PM
invasion of one is tantamount to an invasion to all, even if its a nature preserve, it us United State Government property.
[/B]

You aren't taking into account the original point I was trying to make. I'm pretty sure that the invasion of the Aleutian Islands didn't result in the deaths of 27 million citizens.

LegalSmash
06-11-2008, 09:01 PM
You aren't taking into account the original point I was trying to make. I'm pretty sure that the invasion of the Aleutian Islands didn't result in the deaths of 27 million citizens.

You miss my point entirely, the sovereignty of the land is worth more than the 27 M.

PotshotPolka
06-11-2008, 10:06 PM
You miss my point entirely, the sovereignty of the land is worth more than the 27 M.

Here Here. Unless your country only has 26,999,999 people.

Italian Jew
06-11-2008, 10:42 PM
We are arguing over one thing. How does my stance on one subject account for the entirety for my political beliefs? I am more right-wing when it comes to different things, like punishment for crimes. I prefer the harsher punishments for crimes. I prefer a strong government as to a weak one (i.e. leftist leans more towards democracy and anarchy, right-wing is more towards monarchy).


As we all know, you cherish individual freedom, would mean you would be a liberal (according to your definition of one or a few statements about politics dictate your entire political views). Stop being a dimwitted pundit and act like a decent human being. It isn't a liberal or a conservative you are dealing with; it is in fact another human being (this may be a huge shock to you)! I make up my decision on a topic AFTER I go over it, not before. Here is a quote which I truly believe in from Chris Rock, "Anyone that makes up their mind before they hear an issue is a fucking fool!" Don't pretend you are perfectly conservative or that I am liberal or joe schmoe is a damn socialist. Instead, say he is conservative about this issue, or he is liberal about this issue, but do not generalize people into political factions. Its as pathetic as the McCarthy hearings.

As for your counter statements...

Brought upon themselves, he who has the Gold makes the rule... golden rule.

I do not see how Cuba decided to bring about the embargo or poverty...however I am sure I missed it during one of Castro's speeches.

Similar argument to it wasnt the dumb whore's fault at all that she caught the HIV when she decided to blow the three guys at the bar. Lay down with dogs, get fleas


Being offered a chance to change things is not considered to be laying down with the dogs and getting fleas (nor the whore idea...wonder where you got that one). The US supported Batista even though he was doing a horrible job in Cuba, but they only supported him because he was not a communist. It was either know you would get fucked over by a US supported moron or try your chances at people's revolution. The decision was made to try to remove the blight already there and hopefully make things better.

WHAT? No, they were quite service oriented... hotels, entertainment, and tourism before "El Commandante decided to "liberate" everything for the people and killed off any US tourism. Even then, they still are not a "labor market", they have no manufacture or substantially developing market... they are a stagnating economy because of the effects of being led by adverse retards that insist on socialism on the side of the globe which is was nearly nonexistent.


As for the "vast" amounts of tourism that helped their economy, do you forget of the effects of agriculture? I am sure that the variety of crops from Cuba including sugar, rice, tobacco, fruits, etc. did not lead to any farms or plantations in the area. They were all about 5-star hotels! :w00t: The majority of the country was based around agriculture, thereby rendering it less developed than other industrialized nations. They began to see more industry and tourism, but like I said above, Batista fucked it up for them.

It never was "textbook communism", it was "be part of the National Party, you get your 6 eggs, 1 chicken, and 3 cups of powdered milk", "disagree and you die/rot in el moro." Style "communism"

I never said it was textbook communism you twit. I said what part of communism they had in them, meaning they did not have %100 communism. I also emphasized this throughout my wall of text by using "communism" with the quotation marks. Next time I will spell it out for you.

Actually the leadership didnt care at the beginning about the people that are left, and still dont care, because the people in charge are still eating quite well.

The people in charge do indeed care about the people left. If you remember correctly, if the people get pushed past a limit, they will revolt (coup of Batista, other revolutions...). I am sure the Cubans do not want to continue to be in a conflict with the US, but because the US is trying to strangle them, they really aren't too happy.

Actually no, the US exile community, the international exile community, and the US would pour out. Cuba has and still does produce useful, hardworking immigrants that excel in the US. We are one of the most affluent groups in the US, as minorities, we are only outranked by the Asians. Further, Cuba proper is an excellent tourist destination and was prior to 1959 a cash cow, something it will return to in time.

Obviously you cherish your Cuban heritage (probably a little too much thinking you are held in such high esteem. Wanking to your own image much?) The only difference between incoming migrants seeking work and established citizens of the US is that the immigrants will work those laborious jobs at a much lower wage than a common citizen. They are seen as cheap labor, not an superbly effective work force. Being Cuban does not make you more efficient than the Asians, Americans, Europeans, Africans, or anyone else. Throwing money at a problem also does not fix anything. We need good ideas; something that hasn't happened in regards to Cuban policy.

What? We are under no duty to provide either, its a business decision, "agree with us or fuck off...", we are under no duty to reward people for doing shit that we disagree with. Thats like forcing a father to keep a child in his will if the child is gay and he doesnt agree with the kids lifestyle. Guess what? Its daddy's money, property, etc. Cuba was one of our many kids, the people there (mostly poor imbecile farmers and GASP liberal college students) overturned a weak dictatorship by an illiterate fucktard Santero Batista... If the administrations since then disagree, they are under NO DUTY to punish or reward.


When did governing become a business decision. The purpose of government is to provide services to people, not make money off of it. Sure it helps to lessen your losses, but don't act like it is a business. Its people who think it is a business that ruin governments.


The same way I would consider Nazis that ran away after killing 6 million jews. Passage of time does not make your crimes or in this case, transgressions any less relevant

How can you consider the runaway Nazi's the same as Cuba? The runaways are not a nation. There are very few true Nazi's that remain in the world, and you would consider them a nation? Using your argument, Americans would still be dangerous to Native Americans and blacks, the Spanish would be fighting the Caribbean (including your Cuban heritage), along with the rest of the monstrosities of the world.

:rlol:

phatman76
06-12-2008, 12:44 AM
LOL AT LEFT WING TOWARDS "Democracy and Anarchy." I can't get past that to the rest of your post, sorry. Pure liberalism and that which lies beyond, socialism and communism, are the most totalitarian forms of government in existence. As we go down the right, we see socially moral semi-democracy on the social side and libertarian semi-anarchy on the economic/freedom side. Either way, its more free in every sense of the word than any left form of government. Except for Fascists in Germany and Italy circa WWII and those in Myanmar today(not really conservatives either, sorta third direction there), almost every evil undemocratic/totalitarian state in our time has been the product of either communism, socialism, or a dictatorship based on a lack of liberty and a closed economy. USSR, PRC, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, etc. I have to agree, go very far right and you get monarchy, but you have to go way farther right to get undemocracy than you have to go left...

P.S., cuban expats are dift. than nazis because their country still exists i.e. communist Cuba. Just like France had a government-in-exile during WWII. If it weren't for the specter of cold-war style retaliation, cuba would have fallen long ago. We totally should have made it a state when we had the chance 150 years ago, a decision-not-made that really came back to bite us in the ass.

Finally Italian, don't get offended when you get called a liberal when you say patently liberal things in every post. We aren't omniscient, please share your "sensible, conservative" beliefs with us if you wish to. Otherwise, take it like a man when we call you a bleeding heart and call us heartless asses right in return like you know you want to.

lulz... libjew....

Italian Jew
06-12-2008, 01:09 AM
I am basing my statement on the political spectrum which uses the correct definitions of communism and socialism. True communism and socialism result in communal sharing and deciding upon ideas (much like democracy, only further extended into economic practices). The totalitarian versions of communism and socialism do not accurately reflect the definitions of either. They basically try to use right-wing ideas to run a left-wing concept, which is something you really cannot do, hence the governments tend to fail.

(Also I hope I did not unintentionally infer Democracy is anarchy. if it did come out that way, sorry. Not what I intended)

The extreme left would be anarchy (no government and everyone decides for themselves) and the extreme right would be tyranny (the government owns you, your dog, your mom, even your ideas).

I am not angry that I am called a liberal, it is just the premise that Legal thinks he can fully comprehend my beliefs without actually listening to all of them. He has a very condescending tone which I do not take kindly too, nor would anybody else. I would not say you are all heartless because you are trying to accomplish the same things as, let's say, the liberals, just with different ideas. Aren't we all interested in politics because we all seek to find a better way to govern ourselves? Conservatives "bleed their hearts out" as much as liberals, just with different things.

If we had made Cuba a state 150 years ago, things would be very different indeed. I am curious as to the actual state of Cuba at the time and how they might have reacted to becoming or at least trying to become a US state. I think they were a tad pissed at the Spanish by this point, so I do not think the US would have to go conquer their asses for it (as we did with Native Americans). Maybe a more diplomatic approach was possible at the time...damn, why didn't we try and make Cuba a state?

LegalSmash
06-12-2008, 10:05 AM
We offered, much of the country wanted independence. Nowadays, I dont know if they would want it or not, after seeing puerto rico feed off us like a fat kid at a candy store with a loose pursed mom.

BTW, prior to the dictator, Machado, the ELECTED president was deposed by the dictator. Batista wasnt a choice any more than Castro. At least he didnt destroy business by "nationalizing" everything.

Italian Jew
06-12-2008, 06:27 PM
"at least he wasn't a doo doo head like Castro!":001_rolleyes:

I can see how businesses being ruined overshadow a dictator backed by the US because he wasn't a communist. Let's see...Truam recognized Batista AFTER he staged the coup, and Batista then removed many constitutional guarantees temporarily, and then again several more years later. He also had a fake election and supported actions involving murder, torture, police brutality, and a host of other human rights violations. His last feeble attempt to stay in power was prohibiting any elections from being held. Are you telling me the US should have supported this guy, or maybe try to find someone else who was a little less of a tyrant? If the fear was from Communism spreading, then back a leader who would not try to kill his people because he was paranoid about losing power.

Wasn't our policy to promote and support freedom? The US managed to support a harsh dictator...and we wound up losing that fight to another dictator who would make us annoyed for many more years. I guess we fucked up that one...

phatman76
06-13-2008, 12:33 AM
...damn, why didn't we try and make Cuba a state?


We could have, easily. The opportunity came up first before the civil war. The North rejected it though, they thought Cuba would fall in line with the aggressively pro-slavery south and tip the balance in the carefully constructed, pre-civil-war senate.

As we expanded in the late 19th century, the opportunity again came up. However, instead of taking the whole nation, we just took Guantanamo to serve as a refueling base in the Caribbean. When we kicked some serious spanish ass, politicians were too afraid to take Cuba, the ultimate slap in the face to what was left of Spain. Same with the Phillipines. This was also the start of isolationism, the American people became afraid to get involved with the "backward" Cubans and Filipinos that they had liberated from Spanish tyranny.

Turns out, leaving those we liberate is a bad idea. Cuba came back to bite us in the ass, then Afghanistan. For some reason, even when we topple a bad dictator or ruler, the people end up hating us if we don't take them into the fold. Hopefully, the current operations in Iraq and Afghanistan will reverse this trend.

Italian Jew
06-13-2008, 12:47 AM
explains why the french hate us