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PotshotPolka
05-23-2008, 08:50 AM
I'm not going to bother citing any information because each article conflicts with the next, but what do you think, are we going to driving SUVs at $10.00 two years from now or getting Road Warrior on each other's asses?
I've had to do several reports, and most research states that oil production is at its peak this year, and will only go down, and will do so as demand from new sources (India/China) soar.
A 10-15% drop in oil inports to America is estimated to cripple our economic "backbone", causing disruptions in communication, trade, and even gasoline and food, which could lead to political instability, riots, anarchy etc.



Sigh, I might not be getting that damn 73' Maverick now :sad:.

Captain Colon
05-23-2008, 09:18 AM
I've had to do several reports, and most research states that oil production is at its peak this year, and will only go down, and will do so as demand from new sources (India/China) soar.
Everything I've heard says that overall demand actually isn't increasing that rapidly; it's just that supply isn't increasing as much as expected and that's what's going to cause problems. Demand in the east is particularly high for diesel though, especially in China after the earthquake; supposedly they're having some electricity issues.


I don't even pay attention to it anymore because nobody agrees and it's to the point where it's impossible to seperate the facts from the fearmongering bullshit. I read one article where they interviewed some prominent oil market analyst and he basically said "yeah I think the prices are gonna skyrocket in the next decade...but you really can't predict a market like this, it's just not possible, there's always room for something unexpected to happen. But yeah gas prices are definitely going to keep going up probably to $10 a gallon by 2020."

Itch
05-23-2008, 09:29 AM
It is hard to separate fact from B.S. when it comes to something covered by the media.

I've heard all kinds of theories on what the problem is.. If there is such a huge problem and a real need for the price increase... Why are the Oil Companies all reporting record profits?

I've also heard the following.. although I have no idea if there is truth to it or not... That the U.S. currently has enough oil drilling to cover it's needs but due to Environmental restrictions isn't able to refine enough... Not sure if that's got any truth to it.. but it would be interesting to know..

I'm anxiously waiting for the new Hybrid Deisel VW that's supposed to get 80 MPG so that I can get rid of my gas guzzling commuter car (35-40 MPG Kia Rio)

Captain Colon
05-23-2008, 09:39 AM
I've also heard the following.. although I have no idea if there is truth to it or not... That the U.S. currently has enough oil drilling to cover it's needs but due to Environmental restrictions isn't able to refine enough... Not sure if that's got any truth to it.. but it would be interesting to know..
Refining capacity is an issue but I don't think it has anything to do with environmental issues. The only environmental issues I've heard of are the ones about drilling in protected wildlife areas, and if you look at it realistically it's a non-issue; for example the Alaskan reserve most frequently mentioned has enough oil to meet around a day of US demand, and it would take years and billions of dollars to fully exploit. How is that going to help the situation at all?

Since 2003, crude has gone up in price about 500%, gas has gone up about 100%, so I don't understand what people are complaining about. Buncha fat sissy crybabies if you ask me.

SpikedRocker
05-23-2008, 09:41 AM
Refining capacity is an issue but I don't think it has anything to do with environmental issues. The only environmental issues I've heard of are the ones about drilling in protected wildlife areas, and if you look at it realistically it's a non-issue; for example the Alaskan reserve most frequently mentioned has enough oil to meet around a day of US demand, and it would take years and billions of dollars to fully exploit. How is that going to help the situation at all?

From what I've heard some of the refinaries need air quality upgrades.

We are running a story today where people are finally staying home instead of traveling. Most research done has shown 3 bucks wasn't enough but 4 is. Even Exxon's CEO said on the Today Show that he thinks people are actively thinking about gas and its prices. Its effecting peoples choices in driving. I know for me. I am second guessing my visits home and even going out for the evening. Hopefully after this holiday, the prices will platau and maybe drop back a bit before the end of summer.

LegalSmash
05-23-2008, 09:53 AM
Im not as worried about the gas crunch as about the OMFGZ what are we gonna do, no more Gas evaAr problem.

We really need to invest in building infrastructure to an alternate fuel source, be it either nuke, elec, or SOMETHING that can be sustainable and non-other-country-dependent. I think that we WILL eventually go all mad max if we run out of oil/petroleum/gas, and have nothing as a reliable,

( I know I'll get shoes thrown at me for that one).

I also think that the alleged "crises" can also be slightly fixed by making more fuel efficient vehicles. There is NO reason why a car cannot be engineered to get 100-200 mpg on highway or at least a minimum of 80. The car manufacturers do not have the push from the consumer, however, and this is part of the problem to us. Rather than telling me "2.99 a gallon" for a lease period, give me a car that gets 80-100 MPG in idea conditions and I'll pay the 4 a gallon we are breaking now.

This is part of the reason that I really could not give a shit less for ANY of the candidates, none are adressing the issue of infrastructure and i guess id say "weaning" off the petroleum tit. Gas prices are subject to more than just a soccer mom's desire to cart around her crotch droppings in an SUV, and these guys arent acknowledging that.

Red
05-23-2008, 10:34 AM
and it would take years and billions of dollars to fully exploit. How is that going to help the situation at all?


This is what they say EVERY decade.

If we had gotten off our asses in the 70's, 80's, 90's and beginning of this decade and actually fucking done it, then we would have some/ a lot of that oil by now.

Saying "It won't help now" Over and over and over and over is fucking ridiculous and infuriating and has increased the supply shortage we have now. How much fucking higher does the price have to go before people stop with the rote "it wont help now"? It's called PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE asshats.

I agree we should be looking for alternatives etc, but at the same time why the fuck not tap the resources we are sitting on while Cuba and China drill off our coast without hesitation.

And as for the "environmental" factors, blow it out your ass, it's minimal and wildlife is doing just fucking dandy.

I don't want to hear Chuck Schumer saying "Drilling for 1 million barrels of oil in ANWAR will only lower gas a penny a gallon" then a few weeks later when grilling the oil bosses saying "If we could get Saudi Arabia to pump out 1 million barrels more a day it would lower gas 60 cents a gallon".

So getting oil domestically only lowers it a cent while foreign oil lowers in 60 cents? Please, go fuck yourself with your environmental bullshit, the only "solutions" they have are to increase taxes on oil/oil companies who will pass those wonderful taxes on to us, restrict oil exploration/restrict supply and grilling oil execs pointlessly purely for political gain in front of the drone media. All of which does FUCKLE to help ANYTHING.

Fuck environmentalists and the fucking flock of Politicians and Media that pander to them and put us in our current situations and point the finger and everyone BUT themselves where it belongs. Twats.

I don't want to hear a single more whine about gas prices from libs who hinder our very ability to become more energy independent.

More nuke plants, nope, more oil, nope, more coal, nope, more wind turbines, okay, but not where I live, they're too ugly (Read: Ted Kennedy).


edit: Oh and Alfred, there are cars that get 50+ miles a gallon out already in Europe, but they run on DIESEL, GASP, the evil dirty fuel /sarc. Catalytic converters and filters allow diesel cars to run cleanly, but thanks to the Environmental lobby (THANKS AGAIN ASSHATS), the sale of Diesel cars is pathetic and the supply of Diesel fuel is also pathetic.

When I was in Spain we rented a Diesel Peugeot and drive round trip to Portugal and back on mountainous terrain with four of us in the car on ONE tank, at the end we had over a 1/4 tank left. But nope, can't get that car here, it's too "Dirty". But using twice as much "clean" gas for the same distance isn't apparently. Go figure.

Edo
05-23-2008, 10:41 AM
http://www.steam-gamers.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1928&stc=1&d=1211557138

America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Bakken Formation in North Dakota could boost America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply irrelevant.


The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run.




from:http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html

Red
05-23-2008, 10:59 AM
^ Good find.

But is it environmentally friendly?????????????????????????????????????????? ????? :scared::scared:

Itch
05-23-2008, 11:07 AM
^ Good find.

But is it environmentally friendly?????????????????????????????????????????? ????? :scared::scared:

You can use the Environment as an argument against anything.. They are now saying that the disposal of the batteries in Hybrid cars is far worse on the environment than the pollution would have been from the higher fuel consumption.. and that the low wattage florescent light bulbs are also worse on the environment than a conventional bulb.. so you're damned if you do.. and you're damned if you don't..

I use mass transit as much as possible.. but I'm sure some would argue that the diesel electric hybrid train is bad for the environment as well.

Fuck em!

Red
05-23-2008, 11:08 AM
Exactly, yet somehow the "Does it harm the Environment????" argument wins out over logic each and every time.

It makes me want to flame people with extra environmentally hazardous napalm.

Liberal cunt comes out and openly says she wants to nationalize the oil companies, ROFL! She even stops herself halfway from finishing her sentence, but realizes it's too late and has already stepped in it. Look at the reactions of the other congressmen, lol, idiot.

PUaY3LhJ-IQ mmmmmm socialists, err I mean democrats.

PotshotPolka
05-23-2008, 11:14 AM
This site is an example of the crisis being taken to far, but some of the data in the sources is accurate, even if taken out of context.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
I laughed my ass of at the what do we do scenarios, since people actually take that part seriously, but we can reform without as much gas if necessary, we can make sacrifices, but running out isn't the problem, screwing over other countries in the process and potentially reforming superpower blocs all over again is what concerns me.

LegalSmash
05-23-2008, 11:33 AM
edit: Oh and Alfred, there are cars that get 50+ miles a gallon out already in Europe, but they run on DIESEL, GASP, the evil dirty fuel /sarc. Catalytic converters and filters allow diesel cars to run cleanly, but thanks to the Environmental lobby (THANKS AGAIN ASSHATS), the sale of Diesel cars is pathetic and the supply of Diesel fuel is also pathetic.

When I was in Spain we rented a Diesel Peugeot and drive round trip to Portugal and back on mountainous terrain with four of us in the car on ONE tank, at the end we had over a 1/4 tank left. But nope, can't get that car here, it's too "Dirty". But using twice as much "clean" gas for the same distance isn't apparently. Go figure.


I think its preposterous that we still go ape shit over diesel. It may not be the most on its face clean, but as you say, with technological innovation, it becomes acceptable. I think the green movement doesnt exactly have its head on straight (read: has its head up its ass), there is something seriously wrong when you are taking BOTH sustainability and aesthetics (the kennedy example) and saying that they are equally important.

I grew up in concrete jungle in paradise, miami, I could honestly give a shit less for "ooh, pretty" if my family is "ooh, starving" for lack of fuel for the trucks to get the groceries to the store. Also, im pretty sure the wildebeast neither knows nor gives a fuck about oil, our use of it, or the fact that we would jam a big oil spike right there on his prarie (being fececious here). The fear of nuclear power is vastly unwarranted and brought about by these pathetic NIMBY assholes that are the same ones that want homeless aids shelters, just not in little timmy's eye or earshot.
Nuke power works, and as long as you dont have drunken, slavic, fucktards running the machine while drinking antifreeze, you are generally safe of meltdown and other problems. Wind leaves you at mercy of... the wind.. and honestly, I would not want to depend the national ability to produce, operate, etc. on a fickle power source. Right now, Nuclear and coal fired plants are the best bet so long as we are working towards a non-fossil, sustainable source. As long as we are just throwing fossil into the burner, but arent bothering to at least make a half assed attempt to get a "better" source, we arent moving forward at all.

Also: Nationalization of the oil companies is the dumbest idea to ever come out of a congressman's mouth. She needs to first take a diction and speech class, and second STFU, think about what she is going to say, prior to just bukkakke-ing leftard bullshit onto the oil men

PotshotPolka
05-23-2008, 11:47 AM
Oh Legal, I wish I could carry you in a briefcase and sic you on every dumbass I meet on the street. :laugh:
But I don't really care about the environmental viewpoint right now, at this rate the environmentalists will get what they want anyways since no one will be able to afford gas at the rates it may reach with 15-25 mpg fleet average.
Like Legal said, this may not turn into the environmentalist and panic rat brew-haha it was in the 70s and 80s, this one may get ugly.

Red
05-23-2008, 11:53 AM
Money talks, bullshit (environmentalism) walks.

Especially when it touches EVERYONE. From gas to food prices.

LegalSmash
05-23-2008, 12:07 PM
thanks polka. Soon for a modest fee in FL, you just may have that LOL

Red makes a very valid point here, this time it touches EVERYONE.

Our farming/food distribution network is rather different from 1970s.. when the food was either carted in or grown from a semilocal area. NOW, we have perishables getting TRUCKED in from BFE, or its foreign, or its somehow, someway, costing MORE to move than it did XYZ years ago.

I think it ultimately boils down to two things:

1. the need of the country's people to GFTO of their cars and walk 2-3 blocks to the grocery store with a cart to save on gas, while the prices level out at 10-15% above or below where they are now... or
2. we drill the SHIT and refine the SHIT out of everything we have, and cut out of the world market as much as possible.

There is also that third option: make people eat the cost until they either:
bitch the car companies into being more fuel efficient, tell the envirotards to fuck off and allow drilling, or stop driving around needlessly.

ALL of these options however, MUST be followed up with the construction of infrastructure and research into a viable, renewable, or at least sustainable alternative. I dont give a shit if it makes the penguins die... because the penguins would not give a hoot in hell if I did.

Dependence on foreign oil is bad for us, security-wise, economically, and socially

Dependence of foreign oil from countries run by terrorist, leftist, or otherwise annoying fucktards is REALLY bad for us, because essentially it leaves us in the position of the "gotta take it to keep up appearances" beaten up tina turner to Saudi, Iran, Venezuela, etc (enter oil country here)'s Ike turner.

What annoys me most about it is that its completely counter intuitive to the "rugged american individualism" that has existed throughout the mid 20th century and back.

We need to stop lying to ourselves and just admit we want to drill if we want to keep the recreational use of cars even an option and we NEED to drill so that prices are at least evening out, and that we are LESS at the whim and rage of the world markets. This is not at all an argument for "antiglobalism" but rather the opposite... we have more money for our own people, and to invest in other places if we stop tossing it so needlessly out.

Itch
05-23-2008, 12:18 PM
I'm not anti-environment.. but I am
anti-environmentalist.

In Utah there is only one major road going North-South and that's I-15.
Once they planned on putting an alternate highway in (Legacy-Highway)
the uber-environmentalists went ape-shit. They claimed that this would destroy wetlands & farmlands. (A friend did a report on it and he walked the entire section they intended to put the highway in and could not find a single area that could be called wetlands or farmland.) They all yelled use mass transit (which we didn't have until 2 months ago). Then we had a semi roll over blocking the highway for 4 hours. Thousands of people were stuck in their cars for hours with the engines idling. With NO alternative route they couldn't do anything about it.. and mass transit or not No One could get through.. While stuck in this vehicular cluster fuck I looked at the Suburban in front of me that was billowing black exhaust with only one person in the vehicle I read the bumper sticker "Stop Legacy Highway!"

Logic is not allowed when the environment is brought into the issue.. I'm not opposed to protecting our natural resources.. but these ignorant fucks need to be clubbed like baby seals!

VirDeBello
05-23-2008, 12:35 PM
http://www.steam-gamers.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1928&stc=1&d=1211557138

America is sitting on top of a super massive 200 billion barrel Oil Field that could potentially make America Energy Independent and until now has largely gone unnoticed. Thanks to new technology the Bakken Formation in North Dakota could boost America’s Oil reserves by an incredible 10 times, giving western economies the trump card against OPEC’s short squeeze on oil supply and making Iranian and Venezuelan threats of disrupted supply irrelevant.


The US imported about 14 million barrels of Oil per day in 2007 , which means US consumers sent about $340 Billion Dollars over seas building palaces in Dubai and propping up unfriendly regimes around the World, if 200 billion barrels of oil at $90 a barrel are recovered in the high plains the added wealth to the US economy would be $18 Trillion Dollars which would go a long way in stabilizing the US trade deficit and could cut the cost of oil in half in the long run.




from:http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news2.13s.html

Isn't that the oil that is inside rocks and sand but needed some kinda special technology to refine but now we are on the breakthrough? And its located in Northwest American, some in America and some in Canada? Ima on lunch break now so I can't read all of it but glad someone posted up this topic.

LegalSmash
05-23-2008, 01:59 PM
Havok:

I feel for your example, I'll also add that here we have the exact same problem, on TOP of stamps, these people get a monthly check, and if they can prove disability through the (rather pathetic) examples of it, they get ANOTHER check to use. Believe me, i totally understand, and it exists here as well.

Situations like that are why guys like Red and I get fuming when we hear some granola crunching imbecile talk about the need of more taxes, or to have a heart. My fricking heart went out with 1/3 of my earnings. THANKS uncle Sam. Meanwhile, I HAVE to go to walmart, target, etc. to buy shoes, because I pay taxes, while Shaneequa, KA-Ra-Tyrone-eem and her 14 love children get to have nike air max shoes, Jordans, and other designer clothing, bought by ME, and every other average tax payer.

i am NOT against congressional spending, but a good example here is the farm bill. There is NO reason why a farmer should get triple subsidies or for that matter ANY assistance if he makes more than 250K per year. That man/woman makes more than about oh say 80% of the United States Tax base, and HE is getting the cuts?

This was part of that lovely bi-partisan farm bill passed and vetoed and i think passed over veto this week.

People dont look at the legislation that is public record for their purview, they just vote on it at random. People should read the things their blowhard congresspeople are trying to pass.

PotshotPolka
05-23-2008, 03:21 PM
Also, the thing people don't quite realise is, once we get cars converted to hybrid or hydrogen fuel cells, etc. and global warming will be "cured", then it's not going to be smooth sailing.
Don't worry Havok, An "actual" working hyrdogen fuel cell costs roughly $1,000,000 and is only good for 12,000 miles, or one year of driving by the average American.


But since we've basically covered all there is here, I guess the bottom line is people won't start to get until after the shit hits the fan, and its all over their poodle's faces. From what I've derived, atleast for American and most other developed countries (with maybe the exception of Brasil and their damn sugarcane ethanol) will not be able to cusion the damage that will be done by a loss of oil production.
For instance, all solar and wind turbines in America as of right now have an output of two average size coal-firing plants.

Captain Colon
05-24-2008, 01:56 AM
This is what they say EVERY decade.

If we had gotten off our asses in the 70's, 80's, 90's and beginning of this decade and actually fucking done it, then we would have some/ a lot of that oil by now.

Saying "It won't help now" Over and over and over and over is fucking ridiculous and infuriating and has increased the supply shortage we have now. How much fucking higher does the price have to go before people stop with the rote "it wont help now"? It's called PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE asshats.

I agree we should be looking for alternatives etc, but at the same time why the fuck not tap the resources we are sitting on while Cuba and China drill off our coast without hesitation.

And as for the "environmental" factors, blow it out your ass, it's minimal and wildlife is doing just fucking dandy.

I don't want to hear Chuck Schumer saying "Drilling for 1 million barrels of oil in ANWAR will only lower gas a penny a gallon" then a few weeks later when grilling the oil bosses saying "If we could get Saudi Arabia to pump out 1 million barrels more a day it would lower gas 60 cents a gallon".

So getting oil domestically only lowers it a cent while foreign oil lowers in 60 cents? Please, go fuck yourself with your environmental bullshit, the only "solutions" they have are to increase taxes on oil/oil companies who will pass those wonderful taxes on to us, restrict oil exploration/restrict supply and grilling oil execs pointlessly purely for political gain in front of the drone media. All of which does FUCKLE to help ANYTHING.

Fuck environmentalists and the fucking flock of Politicians and Media that pander to them and put us in our current situations and point the finger and everyone BUT themselves where it belongs. Twats.

I don't want to hear a single more whine about gas prices from libs who hinder our very ability to become more energy independent.

More nuke plants, nope, more oil, nope, more coal, nope, more wind turbines, okay, but not where I live, they're too ugly (Read: Ted Kennedy).


edit: Oh and Alfred, there are cars that get 50+ miles a gallon out already in Europe, but they run on DIESEL, GASP, the evil dirty fuel /sarc. Catalytic converters and filters allow diesel cars to run cleanly, but thanks to the Environmental lobby (THANKS AGAIN ASSHATS), the sale of Diesel cars is pathetic and the supply of Diesel fuel is also pathetic.

When I was in Spain we rented a Diesel Peugeot and drive round trip to Portugal and back on mountainous terrain with four of us in the car on ONE tank, at the end we had over a 1/4 tank left. But nope, can't get that car here, it's too "Dirty". But using twice as much "clean" gas for the same distance isn't apparently. Go figure.
The Department of Energy has stated in its own report that fully exploiting the ANWR reserve would lower crude prices worldwide by 20-30 cents a barrel in a decade or two. Most likely you wouldn't even notice the effect because by the time everything is up and running, the price will have skyrocketed because according to most geologists production will have started falling before that point. Instead of pushing expensive stopgap measures that will have little/no effect, why not spend that money on finding a REAL solution to making us less dependent on fossil fuels? Sorry for wanting to FIX the problem instead of pushing it back so people forget about it.

I think you should also try making at least one post without a three-paragraph rant about those damn granola-chugging environmentalist PETA hippies, I can't even take you seriously anymore :sad:


P.S. Most european cars get better mileage because they're fucking tiny diesels, not because they're diesels. The new Peugeot 170hp diesel that came out in January gets a little under 30mpg, the old 136hp version got 33mpg. My shitty Mustang with its shitty 3.8 that has a reputation for horrible mileage gets 30mpg on highway. The Jetta TDI is rated 30/41mpg, only 5mpg better than a Corolla of about the same displacement (100cc difference) which is rated 27/35. Highway mileage is better by an appreciable amount, but most people don't do most of their driving on the highway, which is where diesels usually gain the most MPG benefit because their power curve lets them turn at a much lower speed than a gasoline engine for extended periods. Diesels aren't a magic fix to your bad-mileage car...it would take years for the car to pay for itself in fuel savings, especially considering diesel is at least 20% MORE expensive in most places than gasoline.

I think we're getting kind of close to the limit as far as maxing out the efficiency of our engines, and the only way to increase the mileage of cars will be through weight savings and stuff like hybrid electric systems. I really wish an American automaker would make a hybrid car that was zoomzoom (because electric motors generate the same torque at any RPM, they outperform combustion engines pretty much by an order of magnitude at from-a-stop acceleration) and didn't look retarded, people would be all over it. Case in point: The Tesla Roadster (http://www.teslamotors.com). 220 miles on a single charge (a little less than my Fiero), 2-3 hours to charge, 100kmi before the batteries start to lose performance, and 200ft-lbs of torque from 0-6000RPM. The only thing limiting it as a practical daily driver (besides the cost :ohmy:) is the lack of any kind of infrastructure to recharge it away from home.

Italian Jew
05-24-2008, 02:18 AM
But the oil barons want your monies!!!

I think I read somewhere that once gas were to hit a national average of $6 a gallon, that is when we could see the onset of another depression as many could not afford to travel to work and business could not afford to hire many people. It is sad to say, but I think the only way for our dependence on oil to be relieved most effectively would be through an event such as this to get the decision makers off their asses and do something productive in the long run.

Captain Colon
05-24-2008, 04:09 AM
I think I read somewhere that once gas were to hit a national average of $6 a gallon, that is when we could see the onset of another depression as many could not afford to travel to work and business could not afford to hire many people.
Well that sounds like it works out....fire the people who can't afford to come to work anymore. That way they don't have to spend money on gas and the company doesn't have to spend money on them :thumbup:

VirDeBello
05-24-2008, 04:31 AM
Anyone forget they can buy a bike and take the train/bus? Come on people........

Captain Colon
05-24-2008, 05:06 AM
Anyone forget they can buy a bike and take the train/bus? Come on people........
Yeah I totally ride my bike on the highway to work every day, it's ballin'

You seem to forget that busses and trains use gas too and any significant increase in gas prices will affect fares accordingly. It's usually cheaper to drive anyway, the bus is just for when you want to get drunk.

SpikedRocker
05-24-2008, 08:05 AM
Anyone forget they can buy a bike and take the train/bus? Come on people........

And for us in rural america are still screwed. There is no mass transit and I'm not riding a bike over the mountain to go to work at 3 am.

PotshotPolka
05-24-2008, 08:22 AM
Put your Man-card into the Man-box, suck it up, and buy a Vespa.

SpikedRocker
05-24-2008, 08:24 AM
Put your Man-card into the Man-box, suck it up, and buy a Vespa.

hehe I just bought a new car this week, I think it gets great mileage, I only need to fill up almost every 2 weeks, so I don't complain about that too much.

PotshotPolka
05-24-2008, 10:23 AM
I'm resigning on getting my Maverick (I cry every night thinking about it) I will be inheriting in part my Dad's Jeep Wrangler, which we will probably both alternate on when it's raining. He usually drives his Harley, I will probably have a Suzuki GS500F by the end of this summer.

LitKey
05-24-2008, 10:40 AM
hehe I just bought a new car this week, I think it gets great mileage, I only need to fill up almost every 2 weeks, so I don't complain about that too much.

what car

Captain Colon
05-24-2008, 11:34 AM
http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/newsblog/archives/smartcar.jpg

SpikedRocker
05-24-2008, 11:36 AM
what car

I had an 05 focus now I have a 08. I tried to teach my wife stick, that didn't work so I had to get something she could drive for our long trips to see my family.

PotshotPolka
05-24-2008, 12:15 PM
Driving a stick is pain until you get it down after a few days, I kept stalling in intersections and had people staring at me as the Jeep jerked around.

Repeat
05-24-2008, 01:08 PM
A 10-15% drop in oil inports to America is estimated to cripple our economic "backbone", causing disruptions in communication, trade, and even gasoline and food, which could lead to political instability, riots, anarchy etc.



Sigh, I might not be getting that damn 73' Maverick now :sad:.


Get guns, and get ready to defend your home and family from the hordes! That's what I'm doing.

Also, I'm investing in hydrogen fuel-cell companies. Hooray!

PotshotPolka
05-24-2008, 04:46 PM
Get guns, and get ready to defend your home and family from the hordes! That's what I'm doing.

Also, I'm investing in hydrogen fuel-cell companies. Hooray!

I said it earlier, but there have been few "breakthroughs" in hydrogen fuel cells, and an active one still costs roughly a million dollars.
As far as the militant part... I'd flee to Brazil if you really wanted to do that.

Veggie
05-24-2008, 05:04 PM
I figure it's going to get hella lot worse before if at all it gets any better. Part of the problem could be solved if they stopped making big ass ford expeditions and gas guzzlers. Whoever the next president is they need to put their foot down in opec.

PotshotPolka
05-24-2008, 05:29 PM
I figure it's going to get hella lot worse before if at all it gets any better. Part of the problem could be solved if they stopped making big ass ford expeditions and gas guzzlers. Whoever the next president is they need to put their foot down in opec.

"In" OPEC? You must mean "on" OPEC.

SpikedRocker
05-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Driving a stick is pain until you get it down after a few days, I kept stalling in intersections and had people staring at me as the Jeep jerked around.

Yeah I forced myself to learn and was fine within a week.

Repeat
05-24-2008, 06:43 PM
I said it earlier, but there have been few "breakthroughs" in hydrogen fuel cells, and an active one still costs roughly a million dollars.
As far as the militant part... I'd flee to Brazil if you really wanted to do that.

Actually, you're wrong. There are many various emerging hydrogen fuel cell based technologies and power sources that are going to be available in the near future -- especially if gas prices keep soaring. For instance, Honda's new 'Clarity'.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Granted, this type of car won't be seen everywhere until we make a more hydrogen friendly society (fuel stations, stuff like that).



And in regards to 'fleeing to Brazil', I like it just fine here, thanks. I see nothing wrong with being prepared for a possible uprising. It's all about survival of the fittest, and I know damned well that if people trying to survive try to break into my home and hurt my family, that their efforts will be pretty futile.

(PS: I don't have an arsenal, just a few weapons for home defense / recreation. If need be, and lets hope it never has to come to this, we'll get more.)

PotshotPolka
05-24-2008, 07:14 PM
Actually, you're wrong. There are many various emerging hydrogen fuel cell based technologies and power sources that are going to be available in the near future -- especially if gas prices keep soaring. For instance, Honda's new 'Clarity'.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Granted, this type of car won't be seen everywhere until we make a more hydrogen friendly society (fuel stations, stuff like that).



And in regards to 'fleeing to Brazil', I like it just fine here, thanks. I see nothing wrong with being prepared for a possible uprising. It's all about survival of the fittest, and I know damned well that if people trying to survive try to break into my home and hurt my family, that their efforts will be pretty futile.

(PS: I don't have an arsenal, just a few weapons for home defense / recreation. If need be, and lets hope it never has to come to this, we'll get more.)

Buy a 12 Gauge, and put a blank in first, that way they run shitless and you don't have a hole the size of a garbage can lid in your wall. :laugh:
I only meant Brazil as a joke, but as of now they are nearly independent of oil, and use primarily sugarcane ethanol.

Captain Colon
05-25-2008, 08:30 PM
Yeah probably because 90% of the country can't afford a car. Plus putting farmland aside for ethanol means less farmland for stuff like...oh I dunno, food maybe.

Lemmings19
05-25-2008, 08:51 PM
Yeah probably because 90% of the country can't afford a car. Plus putting farmland aside for ethanol means less farmland for stuff like...oh I dunno, food maybe.

Your point? We can starve. So long as it means we get easy transportation AKA cars. :wink:

mNote
05-26-2008, 04:32 AM
Actually, you're wrong. There are many various emerging hydrogen fuel cell based technologies and power sources that are going to be available in the near future -- especially if gas prices keep soaring. For instance, Honda's new 'Clarity'.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Granted, this type of car won't be seen everywhere until we make a more hydrogen friendly society (fuel stations, stuff like that).



And in regards to 'fleeing to Brazil', I like it just fine here, thanks. I see nothing wrong with being prepared for a possible uprising. It's all about survival of the fittest, and I know damned well that if people trying to survive try to break into my home and hurt my family, that their efforts will be pretty futile.

(PS: I don't have an arsenal, just a few weapons for home defense / recreation. If need be, and lets hope it never has to come to this, we'll get more.)

You need to show me how I can invest in this. I work at a gas station and every week, gasoline literally goes up by an average rate of $0.10 cents per week. If it continues to go up like this, gasoline would undoubtedly be $8.00 or more per gallon by the end of this year.

Repeat
05-26-2008, 09:07 AM
You need to show me how I can invest in this. I work at a gas station and every week, gasoline literally goes up by an average rate of $0.10 cents per week. If it continues to go up like this, gasoline would undoubtedly be $8.00 or more per gallon by the end of this year.

While there a ton of emerging hyrdrogen fuel cell companies, this is the one I'm invested in.

http://www.plugpower.com/index.cfm?vid=1140736&liak=70610568

They are the ones making the fuel cell for the Honda Clarity! Stocks are running a little above 3 dollars, and have been showing a pretty promising performance. The went down 14 cents on Friday, but that's just the nature of the ride. I don't pretend to be a stock guru, but I feel that this is a pretty good company to be invested in! The car will be available only in California at first (logistical issues, such as fueling stations kind of hinder the ability to sell them to the rest of the country....so far) but in a few years it's gonna be huge.

Omar
05-26-2008, 12:05 PM
I'm very much Nixonist when it comes to hippies and enviromentalists.

I mean, I'm not one of those idiots that buys a large bulky car or an SUV and claims it's for the "school run."

Road tax and congestion charges over here are ****ing ridiculous on their own, but that added to the fuel costs the next few generations are going to suffer far too much than they should.

I mean, excluding chavs etc. the average person goes through school, does decently in their grades, gets a few jobs, settles down and has a career for a company.

The company is British, so that person is contributing for the national economy. The amount of people that certain companies hire could mean that they are contributing to a lot more than thought to the economy.

The man gets taxed for schools from the government, which is fine, because he was educated by one. The man is taxed for hospitals and the NHS, which is fine because they'll always be there should he need them. He gets taxed for over emergency services, which is still fine, because they will be there should he need them.

And yet, there are hundreds of NHS wards and GP offices being closed for cutbacks. Fire stations are having to be centralised in cities, where the local ones are being demolished. Schools are falling apart and costing the government millions to build new ones.

Where does this money come from? Your average man, still doing his job. He doesn't mind. He can't, there isn't anything he can do about it.

So, let's say this average man is married. His wife breaks her arm. He has to get in his car and drive her to the nearby city because the local one has been demolished and the ambulances are busy. He has to stop to fill the car up on the way, and it has risen from 120 to 138 ppL since a few days ago.

He doesn't mind, likewise, there isn't anything he can do about it.

He gets to the city and he has to pay a congestion charge because it is a weekday and very busy. The congestion charge takes a bite into his wallet, and he is taxed also as he enters due to the fact his car drinks petrol a little faster than it should.

He gets there, drops his wife off, and has to wait four hours for an X-ray because it is busy. It's finally her turn, it's diagnosed broken and she gets it put into some rockpaper and a sling.

They drive back home, after having to pay for the parking, pick their child up at the school nearby because the local one closed ages ago, and get home.

The next month is fairly average, he earns an average wage, but loses an even larger cut of it than last year because of the local tax going up, to buy a new ambulance.

Now, that doesn't seem fair, does it? No, of course it doesn't, but there's nothing one can do about it.

Or is there? Think. Where can the government cut it's spending or shift some around?

We're always hearing about benefit fraud. I heard a statistic the other day, since 1999, £402 billion has been wasted paying your local yobbo so he can go buy more cans of cider and demonlish something drunkenly, while claiming he has a back problem.

America doesn't really have this problem, because you have food stamps, et cetera. A good idea. It works.

A teenage mother chav shouldn't be given dole money so she can go buy cigarettes or some cheap Aftershock. She should be given stamps to buy milk, or food for her child, thus forcing her to get them, and taking a step against child neglect.

If the government taped up the benefit fraud crack, then taxes would go down considerably.

But that doesn't help fuel prices, does it? Nope. Only a shortage or Union strikes can.

The reason, for the UK at least, the prices are going up is because all those oil rigs out in the North Sea know that the reserve out there is lessening rapidly.

Within 10 years it will be gone, I kid you not.

So, the government has to divert payments and taxes to help try develop hydrogen fuel cells, or nuclear power station projects, etc. And where does the money come from? Your average person again.

Now, I should point out, the average person is NOT the chav teenage mother, or the local drunken yobbo, or any anti-social people. It's simply the guys who get educated, have fun in their youth, get a job, stays in it, work their ass off, marry, have kids and die.

Depressing, yes. Fantasy, no.

Also, the thing people don't quite realise is, once we get cars converted to hybrid or hydrogen fuel cells, etc. and global warming will be "cured", then it's not going to be smooth sailing.

What people don't understand is, that's not our great achievment, cracking pollution and global warming.

Why? Because, if we use hydrogen fuel cells instead of petrol, then our next problem won't be too much CO2, it will be too much H²O.

You might not care, or say it won't matter, but it will just replace Carbon Dioxide's current effect.

So, after all that, taxes and fuel prices and environmental problems will never lessen or disappear. That's not the way the universe works. The problem will simply adapt to a new thing.

It's the same idea as evolution. The universe course-corrects when it realises there is a mistake.

AMEN!!

Repeat
05-26-2008, 03:42 PM
.





Also, the thing people don't quite realise is, once we get cars converted to hybrid or hydrogen fuel cells, etc. and global warming will be "cured", then it's not going to be smooth sailing.

What people don't understand is, that's not our great achievment, cracking pollution and global warming.

Why? Because, if we use hydrogen fuel cells instead of petrol, then our next problem won't be too much CO2, it will be too much H²O.

You might not care, or say it won't matter, but it will just replace Carbon Dioxide's current effect.




I don't really think that too much H²O will be a problem. The world is already over 70% water, so a tid bit more shouldn't hurt. As human civilization grows older (barring disaster/plagues/destroying ourselves), there will be more people. More people need more water! ;-) But I highly doubt there will be a problem associated with the water produced from hydrogen fuel cells.

Italian Jew
05-26-2008, 04:00 PM
ZOMG Hydrogen Cell cars will lead the earth to change into...Waterworld! :scared:

Could there be a way to capture the water and I dunno, drink it?

Repeat
05-26-2008, 04:31 PM
ZOMG Hydrogen Cell cars will lead the earth to change into...Waterworld! :scared:

Could there be a way to capture the water and I dunno, drink it?

It's supposed to be pure water, so I don't see why not!

mNote
05-26-2008, 05:29 PM
While there a ton of emerging hyrdrogen fuel cell companies, this is the one I'm invested in.

http://www.plugpower.com/index.cfm?vid=1140736&liak=70610568

They are the ones making the fuel cell for the Honda Clarity! Stocks are running a little above 3 dollars, and have been showing a pretty promising performance. The went down 14 cents on Friday, but that's just the nature of the ride. I don't pretend to be a stock guru, but I feel that this is a pretty good company to be invested in! The car will be available only in California at first (logistical issues, such as fueling stations kind of hinder the ability to sell them to the rest of the country....so far) but in a few years it's gonna be huge.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing these kind of cars take over the country in the next 20 or 30 so years. There has not been a single day where I have worked and not hear complaints about gas prices since it went up to $3.00 a gallon.

This catastrophe might even border the Great Depression...

PotshotPolka
05-26-2008, 07:20 PM
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing these kind of cars take over the country in the next 20 or 30 so years. There has not been a single day where I have worked and not hear complaints about gas prices since it went up to $3.00 a gallon.

This catastrophe might even border the Great Depression...

Wrong, the Great Depression was triggered by overproduction and little demand along with rampant inflation.
While the inflation part may be similar, the problem this time will be little or no production, and disrupted trade routes. The Great Depression doesn't really have shit on what could happen here.

LegalSmash
05-26-2008, 07:33 PM
^^ i think he meant figuratively, or at least I took his comment to mean as such. Gas prices are NOT going to magically go down because we want them to, they may level, and even drop a little, but I seriously doubt you will get a "under a dollar" a gallon ever again. That time has passed. We should as a country work on improving fuel efficiency, finding alternate sources instead of durka countries and socializuela, and making infrastructure for a fully alternate source, or at least making strides toward doing so.

Assuming arguendo:
Even IF gas prices were to go down, the problem of "this shit is an inelastic item and people NEED it" will still exist, and the average "joe" will go right back to idiotically driving to someplace he can clearly walk to... I THINK that this gas issue will at least make us as a country rethink use discrepancy... when is it worth it and when is it not. Its ALL part of what I like to call "learn to budget, and manage your finances you FUCKTARD countryman of mine"

mNote
05-26-2008, 11:09 PM
^^ i think he meant figuratively, or at least I took his comment to mean as such. Gas prices are NOT going to magically go down because we want them to, they may level, and even drop a little, but I seriously doubt you will get a "under a dollar" a gallon ever again. That time has passed. We should as a country work on improving fuel efficiency, finding alternate sources instead of durka countries and socializuela, and making infrastructure for a fully alternate source, or at least making strides toward doing so.

Assuming arguendo:
Even IF gas prices were to go down, the problem of "this shit is an inelastic item and people NEED it" will still exist, and the average "joe" will go right back to idiotically driving to someplace he can clearly walk to... I THINK that this gas issue will at least make us as a country rethink use discrepancy... when is it worth it and when is it not. Its ALL part of what I like to call "learn to budget, and manage your finances you FUCKTARD countryman of mine"

I seriously wish I could buy stocks that go up like gas prices do.

juku
05-27-2008, 06:09 AM
I seriously wish I could buy stocks that go up like gas prices do.

lol didn't the gas stock just went up with it.
chevron(cvx)
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?PT=4&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&compsyms=&CA=1&CB=1&CC=1&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=0&MA1=0&CF=0&D7=&D6=&symbol=CVX&nocookie=1&SZ=0
shell(RDS.A)
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?D4=1&ViewType=0&D5=0&D3=0&PeriodType=3&C9=0&DisplayForm=1&Symbol=RDS%2EA&&ShowChtBt=Refresh+Chart&DateRangeForm=1&CP=0&PT=4&CE=0&ComparisonsForm=1

PotshotPolka
05-27-2008, 10:37 AM
^^ i think he meant figuratively, or at least I took his comment to mean as such. Gas prices are NOT going to magically go down because we want them to, they may level, and even drop a little, but I seriously doubt you will get a "under a dollar" a gallon ever again. That time has passed. We should as a country work on improving fuel efficiency, finding alternate sources instead of durka countries and socializuela, and making infrastructure for a fully alternate source, or at least making strides toward doing so.

Assuming arguendo:
Even IF gas prices were to go down, the problem of "this shit is an inelastic item and people NEED it" will still exist, and the average "joe" will go right back to idiotically driving to someplace he can clearly walk to... I THINK that this gas issue will at least make us as a country rethink use discrepancy... when is it worth it and when is it not. Its ALL part of what I like to call "learn to budget, and manage your finances you FUCKTARD countryman of mine"

We should break open the frame glass separating the "Good Morning America" show from the street and chuck you in there Legal. It would be epic.