PDA

View Full Version : Religion of Peace Strikes Again



LegalSmash
04-07-2008, 09:46 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080407/wl_afp/maliaustriaqaedahostagesdemands

Very peaceful. Very compassionate.

Italian Jew
04-07-2008, 10:16 PM
you can really feel the love! :rlol:

Misanthrope
04-07-2008, 10:59 PM
Religion, especially in the Judeo Christian sense, is more a mass psychotic delirium. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all stem from the same story and have had their fair share of human rights violations. The differences could be compared to that of an olive, beef and oyster fork.

Muslims are just a little less subtle nowadays. I remember managing to find the unedited version of this video featuring a 12 year old boy sawing a mans head off with a long knife.

At least theists aren't much worse than Stalin.

Red
04-07-2008, 11:27 PM
you are a pirate

LegalSmash
04-08-2008, 05:33 PM
I've never actually found any info on it, but what is the muslim position on homosexuality?

Edo
04-08-2008, 05:44 PM
test

Edo
04-08-2008, 05:47 PM
I've never actually found any info on it, but what is the muslim position on homosexuality?

islam

Homosexuality and Lesbianism have no place in Islam. This issue is clear from the primary source of Islam, The Holy Quran. No Muslim scholar, Imam or a leader of a Muslim community can alter this injunction. A person committing such an act is in violation of God's Law and should seek repentence before God gives up on him or her. As the following verses tell us, it was the people of prophet Lot (peace be on him) who started this evil act and were severly punished by God.

We also (sent) Lut: he said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? "For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But We saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who lagged behind. And We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime! (The Holy Quran, 7:80-84)

Let us all pray that God will spare us from His wrath. Let us pray that we will be among those to whom He has favored and not among those who have gone astray. Ameen.


Every human being is called to receive a gift of divine sonship, to become a child of God by grace. However, to receive this gift, we must reject sin, including homosexual behavior—that is, acts intended to arouse or stimulate a sexual response regarding a person of the same sex. The Catholic Church teaches that such acts are always violations of divine and natural law.

Catholic

Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.

LegalSmash
04-08-2008, 05:57 PM
I can also cite to holy texts, how about some commentary.

Edo
04-08-2008, 06:13 PM
I can also cite to holy texts, how about some commentary.
well im not really sure but dipends where u live i use to live in Europe so down there nothing special ,but ive herad that in some states they cut ur d**k off

LegalSmash
04-08-2008, 06:32 PM
Daaaamn

phatman76
04-08-2008, 07:57 PM
Religion, especially in the Judeo Christian sense, is more a mass psychotic delirium. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all stem from the same story and have had their fair share of human rights violations. The differences could be compared to that of an olive, beef and oyster fork.

Muslims are just a little less subtle nowadays. I remember managing to find the unedited version of this video featuring a 12 year old boy sawing a mans head off with a long knife.

At least theists aren't much worse than Stalin.

A little hostile, religion isn't just a drug. Also, committing a crime while being religious is much different than committing a crime in the name of God or a specific religion. No faithful Christian would commit a crime in the name of God or the Bible, considering that Christ and the Apostles condemned the spread of the gospel by the sword or the breaking of the law, in addition to the strict moral laws set down by the Bible. No Christian who truly has faith and doesn't have a heretical, ridiculous interpretation of the Bible would kill in the name of the Lord (capital punishment and war to defend your land are okay, as long as it isn't religious). Judaism is about the same.

Islam is a fair bit worse, advocating violent evangelism and several relatively barbaric practices, including physical punishment for heretics and nonviolent sinners.

Edit on Homosexuality: Christianity advocates no punishment, a gay is just as lost to God as any other non-Christian. You can associate with them, befriend them, whatever... (the old testament used to give punishment for this, but those punishments were rendered unneccessary when Christ came and preached that although the saved must practice the commandments, there is no need to hurt sinners or the like unless they commit an actual crime, in which case government and bible condoned imprisonment or capital punishment is fine)

Islam, again, advocates destroying them...

Italian Jew
04-08-2008, 08:10 PM
Never met a Muslim who wanted to destroy anyone...sure you are not stereotyping? The Muslim fundamentalists are coming up with their own version of religion just as all the sects of Christianity, Judaism, etc. do. All have their faults and I have met more "christians" than any other religious people who use violence rather than common sense.

Aren't any true Christians in the world nowadays...nor any true Muslims or Jews or what have you. You can't blame the religion, you need to blame who is in charge of the religion for a certain group. As I recall, many Christians defied just about all of their basic principles in the Crusades, but it wasn't the religion that was at fault, it was the European leaders who use it to poison people's minds. Some Islamic leaders are using those tactics today...bad influence I must say.

phatman76
04-08-2008, 08:13 PM
Never met a Muslim who wanted to destroy anyone...sure you are not stereotyping? The Muslim fundamentalists are coming up with their own version of religion just as all the sects of Christianity, Judaism, etc. do. All have their faults and I have met more "christians" than any other religious people who use violence rather than common sense.

Aren't any true Christians in the world nowadays...nor any true Muslims or Jews or what have you. You can't blame the religion, you need to blame who is in charge of the religion for a certain group. As I recall, many Christians defied just about all of their basic principles in the Crusades, but it wasn't the religion that was at fault, it was the European leaders who use it to poison people's minds. Some Islamic leaders are using those tactics today...bad influence I must say.

There are sects, sure. HOWEVER, the Bible ITSELF never condones religious violence. NEVER. The Quran does, however, advocate the destruction of the "infidel". That is all I am saying. I don't care how many "peace-loving" Muslims don't practice "holy warfare," they are just ignoring parts of the Quran.

Italian Jew
04-08-2008, 08:19 PM
The Qur'an mentions this in a defensive context...

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors." (Qur'an 2:191-ish)

They are supposed to favor mercy if the enemy does not fight back....

You need to understand the contexts of the Qur'an or you might sound like a lunatic on the news claiming Islam will be the destruction of the world.

phatman76
04-08-2008, 09:07 PM
The Qur'an mentions this in a defensive context...

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors." (Qur'an 2:191-ish)

They are supposed to favor mercy if the enemy does not fight back....

You need to understand the contexts of the Qur'an or you might sound like a lunatic on the news claiming Islam will be the destruction of the world.

Wrong

Violence against women (Quoted Wikipedia)

Verse 4:34 of the Qur'an as translated by Mohammed Habib Shakir reads:

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Religious punishment of sinners, apostates, etc. (Wikipedia again)

"Most countries of the Middle East and North Africa maintain a dual system of secular courts and religious courts, in which the religious courts mainly regulate marriage and inheritance. Saudi Arabia and Iran maintain religious courts for all aspects of jurisprudence, and religious police assert social compliance. Laws derived from sharia are also applied in Afghanistan, Libya and Sudan. Some states in northern Nigeria have reintroduced Sharia courts.[67] In practice the new Sharia courts in Nigeria have most often meant the re-introduction of harsh punishments without respecting the much tougher rules of evidence and testimony. The punishments include amputation of one/both hands for theft, stoning for adultery and apostasy.[citation needed]

Many, including the European Court of Human Rights, consider the punishments prescribed by Sharia as being barbaric and cruel. Islamic scholars argue that, if implemented properly, the punishments serve as a deterrent to crime.[68] In international media, practices by countries applying Islamic law have fallen under considerable criticism at times. This is particularly the case when the sentence carried out is seen to greatly tilt away from established standards of international human rights. This is true for the application of the death penalty for the crimes of adultery and homosexuality, amputations for the crime of theft, and flogging for fornication or public intoxication. [1]

Though Islamic law is interpreted differently across times, places and scholars, some Muslim fundamentalists following the literal and traditional interpretations believe it should legally be binding on all people of the Muslim faith and even on all people who come under their control.[citation needed]"

sounds a fair deal more barbaric than Christianity to me.

Misanthrope
04-08-2008, 09:09 PM
There are sects, sure. HOWEVER, the Bible ITSELF never condones religious violence. NEVER.

Almost =D

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

Italian Jew
04-08-2008, 09:09 PM
Ummm....that is Wikipedia...and every knowledgeable person or scholar would know that you never cite it as a source. try reading this...

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9801&CATE=3500

I think the Islamic people know their religion best...

Jager
04-08-2008, 09:10 PM
the bible does actually condone religious violence, it is hard however to say that it is not a secular law of the jews that is also put down in the bible,

here is food for thought. the religion i grew up with does not condone violence, however there are other sects of my religion that due to twistign words or interpreting differently do condone said violence,

if you listen to the religious extremists regardless of the religion you will see that they have enourmous charisma and tend to use small twisting of the actual texts to get their way. Immams are no different in this aspect. that is one of the major issues standing between shiite and sunni is for hundreds of years their immams haev taught different perspectives on the same religion.

same way that protestants broke from catholocism for selling of religions icons "guarenteeing" access into heaven.

I will say this and i expect this will get heavy thinking and possibly a bit of debate or flaming even and i really couldnt care less.

All religion can be perverted in the name of a war a belief or a value that one group wishes to use against another. No religion in history is exempt from this occuring, and no organized religion will ever be exempt from this happening in the future. taking something too far is what happens when anyone who is already chaffing under a law is given and seizes the opportunity to lead from their view point. This is not just in religion but in politics etc. the issue arises when a populace is so inherently strict upon itself that it chooses not to question what they are being told and becomes sheep to a twisted proverbial shepard.

my faith requires me to question what im told, and i have generally not found times that after discussion and debate with those outside my religion as well as within to find the answer that is best for me.

this all adds up to this. religion is a personal and private thing, while practicing your beliefs in community with others helps you strengthen your beliefs and gives you a community to rely on and trust, its not a free pass to shut off and stop being yourself.

radical extremist religions force you to follow the herd and create a false community of this is the right thing to do, that is how they get what they want. and that is why you see young men and women and even entire families killing themselves in the name of matyrdom.

phatman76
04-08-2008, 09:27 PM
Almost =D

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

While the Israelites were camped at Acacia, some of the men defiled themselves by sleeping with the local Moabite women. These women invited them to attend sacrifices to their gods, and soon the Israelites were feasting with them and worshiping the gods of Moab. Before long Israel was joining in the worship of Baal of Peor, causing the LORD's anger to blaze against his people. The LORD issued the following command to Moses: "Seize all the ringleaders and execute them before the LORD in broad daylight, so his fierce anger will turn away from the people of Israel." So Moses ordered Israel's judges to execute everyone who had joined in worshiping Baal of Peor. Just then one of the Israelite men brought a Midianite woman into the camp, right before the eyes of Moses and all the people, as they were weeping at the entrance of the Tabernacle. When Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron the priest saw this, he jumped up and left the assembly. Then he took a spear and rushed after the man into his tent. Phinehas thrust the spear all the way through the man's body and into the woman's stomach. So the plague against the Israelites was stopped, but not before 24,000 people had died. (Numbers 25:1-9 NLT)

That is the law, the disobedience of which is no longer a crime to be punished. Those laws were for the Israelites in the old covenant with God, made null by the new covenant with Christ.

Italian Jew
04-08-2008, 09:30 PM
well, Islam was anything but violent...as were the teachings of Christianity, but morons get in the way and shit happens

phatman76
04-08-2008, 09:32 PM
the bible does actually condone religious violence, it is hard however to say that it is not a secular law of the jews that is also put down in the bible,

here is food for thought. the religion i grew up with does not condone violence, however there are other sects of my religion that due to twistign words or interpreting differently do condone said violence,

if you listen to the religious extremists regardless of the religion you will see that they have enourmous charisma and tend to use small twisting of the actual texts to get their way. Immams are no different in this aspect. that is one of the major issues standing between shiite and sunni is for hundreds of years their immams haev taught different perspectives on the same religion.

same way that protestants broke from catholocism for selling of religions icons "guarenteeing" access into heaven.

I will say this and i expect this will get heavy thinking and possibly a bit of debate or flaming even and i really couldnt care less.

All religion can be perverted in the name of a war a belief or a value that one group wishes to use against another. No religion in history is exempt from this occuring, and no organized religion will ever be exempt from this happening in the future. taking something too far is what happens when anyone who is already chaffing under a law is given and seizes the opportunity to lead from their view point. This is not just in religion but in politics etc. the issue arises when a populace is so inherently strict upon itself that it chooses not to question what they are being told and becomes sheep to a twisted proverbial shepard.

my faith requires me to question what im told, and i have generally not found times that after discussion and debate with those outside my religion as well as within to find the answer that is best for me.

this all adds up to this. religion is a personal and private thing, while practicing your beliefs in community with others helps you strengthen your beliefs and gives you a community to rely on and trust, its not a free pass to shut off and stop being yourself.

radical extremist religions force you to follow the herd and create a false community of this is the right thing to do, that is how they get what they want. and that is why you see young men and women and even entire families killing themselves in the name of matyrdom.

I agree that all religion can be perverted. However, I believe Islam is inherently violent also. Those quotes from Wikipedia weren't my main source, they were the Quran quotes. Also, I made a long ass post about this months ago where something like 19 or so nations still have a legal capital punishment for Islamic Apostasy (Muslims renouncing their faith).

Italian Jew
04-08-2008, 09:36 PM
well if you took the time to read and understand the Qur'an you wouldn't think that