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Hunt3r.j2
03-22-2008, 04:48 PM
1. The Federal Reserve has failed, central banking time and time again has failed.

2. The Federal Reserve actually CAUSED the Great Depression, by first spreading rumors about banks failing outside of the Fed Reserve, causing huge withdrawals, and after that, they decided to shrink the money supply.

3. Once they did that, they went ahead and decided that the gold standard was too dangerous to the Federal Reserve's Interest, and the Federal Reserve is just about as Federal as FedEx.

4. So the Federal Reserve's bankers decided to push a law, making it ILLEGAL to own gold as a currency, and this pushed us off the gold standard, where the dollar was redeemable in GOLD. Now, our money is "legal tender" which means it's fiat money, and is backed by thin air.

5. The African, North American, European, and Asian Union is not only outright stupid, it's very very VERY special interests based. In particular, the Constitution of the United States would be considered obsolete in the North American Union, making illegal immigration legal.

6. The government is now not only declaring illegal wars, which keep going perpetually, making the bankers richer, they have declared another war against us. Habeas Corpus is now no longer available if we are to be detained, lawyers cannot represent us if detained, they can outright spy on our lives, and also now the US gov. no longer needs a warrant to search your house or destroy you house.

7. War, war is great for bankers, since the defense contractors need to make money to stay up and running, so where is the money coming from? The Federal Reserve, who loans money to the government at INTEREST. This means that the bankers will constantly EARN money.

8. The Federal Income Tax is not consitutional, nor is it even stated as a law. And the money you pay doesn't even go back into government programs OR salaries, instead, it goes straight into the Federal Reserve's pockets.

Italian Jew
03-22-2008, 04:51 PM
I think this guy is going to get pwned by Legal when he gets on...

Hunt3r.j2
03-22-2008, 05:43 PM
I think this guy is going to get pwned by Legal when he gets on...

I bet I will be.

Captain Colon
03-22-2008, 07:08 PM
Sounds like somebody is mad that the Ron Paul Revolution failed.


Yeah fuck central banking, I wish I had to exchange my currency every time I entered a new state. BRING BACK THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION!!!


2. The Federal Reserve actually CAUSED the Great Depression, by first spreading rumors about banks failing outside of the Fed Reserve, causing huge withdrawals, and after that, they decided to shrink the money supply.
Um what? The great depression was largely helped along by the economic theories at the time. Economists thought that the market would correct itself and that the impending recession was a necessary step towards that self-correction, so the Fed took no action to try and avert it (although even if they wanted to, it would've been difficult due to...*dundundun*...the gold standard!! Any kind of action on the feds part would've made it difficult or impossible for the U.S. to fulfill its contractual obligation to exchange gold with currency at a specified rate). So far aggressive action by the Fed has PREVENTED a serious downturn of our current economy.


3. Once they did that, they went ahead and decided that the gold standard was too dangerous to the Federal Reserve's Interest, and the Federal Reserve is just about as Federal as FedEx.
Show me an economist that DOESN'T believe the gold standard was responsible for engulfing the rest of the developed world in the depression after America fell inn and I'll show you an economist who was on the Paul campaign's payroll. All the evidence shows that the earlier a country abandoned the gold standard, the quicker it ended up recovering.

Do you know there currently isn't enough gold in the entire world to back the GDP of the U.S.?


4. So the Federal Reserve's bankers decided to push a law, making it ILLEGAL to own gold as a currency, and this pushed us off the gold standard, where the dollar was redeemable in GOLD. Now, our money is "legal tender" which means it's fiat money, and is backed by thin air.
Gold was "legal tender" under the gold standard too. If you're gonna try and use some kind of buzzword to make something sound worse than it is, at least pick the right one.


5. The African, North American, European, and Asian Union is not only outright stupid, it's very very VERY special interests based. In particular, the Constitution of the United States would be considered obsolete in the North American Union, making illegal immigration legal.
Oh god no, anything but legal immigration!!! NOW ALL THOSE ILLEGALS WILL BE ABLE TO BECOME CITIZENS AND PAY TAXES!111!1!!1!!!1


6. The government is now not only declaring illegal wars, which keep going perpetually, making the bankers richer, they have declared another war against us. Habeas Corpus is now no longer available if we are to be detained, lawyers cannot represent us if detained, they can outright spy on our lives, and also now the US gov. no longer needs a warrant to search your house or destroy you house.
Yeah those bankers are getting so rich that they're merging to avoid bankruptcy. Also the MCA does not apply to U.S. Citizens, in addition the Supreme Court ruled last year that the president did not have the authority to detain Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri (a legal resident but not a citizen) without charge, and that decision would presumably be the precedent for determining any future cases on the matter (Legal is the lawyer though, not me).


7. War, war is great for bankers, since the defense contractors need to make money to stay up and running, so where is the money coming from? The Federal Reserve, who loans money to the government at INTEREST. This means that the bankers will constantly EARN money.
Maybe you should learn how the Fed actually works. I'm pretty sure the only institutions they ever loan money to are private banks who are on the brink of bankruptcy, where their failure also harm the economy (for instance, if there was a huge national disaster that left half a state without homes or jobs...they'd have no way to pay back their mortgages and the banks would have nothing to repossess to make up the loss).


8. The Federal Income Tax is not consitutional, nor is it even stated as a law. And the money you pay doesn't even go back into government programs OR salaries, instead, it goes straight into the Federal Reserve's pockets.
Don't you mean the jews' pockets? :rolleyes:


Summary: Boy, you need to get yourself some of them learnings. There's not even anything to debate, really...you're just downright wrong about almost everything.

Economists and lawyers, feel free to give me the learnings if I'm incorrect on anything...it's all to the best of my knowledge (which is not great) and that of a couple friends who are in finance.

Italian Jew
03-22-2008, 07:23 PM
Watch the Jew comments...

Captain Colon
03-22-2008, 07:40 PM
It was a facetious remark regarding the similarities between his comments and certain Zionist/New World Order conspiracy theories.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/flash-tub/letter-from-internet-5.php

Hunt3r.j2
03-22-2008, 08:37 PM
Sounds like somebody is mad that the Ron Paul Revolution failed.


Yeah fuck central banking, I wish I had to exchange my currency every time I entered a new state. BRING BACK THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION!!!


Um what? The great depression was largely helped along by the economic theories at the time. Economists thought that the market would correct itself and that the impending recession was a necessary step towards that self-correction, so the Fed took no action to try and avert it (although even if they wanted to, it would've been difficult due to...*dundundun*...the gold standard!! Any kind of action on the feds part would've made it difficult or impossible for the U.S. to fulfill its contractual obligation to exchange gold with currency at a specified rate). So far aggressive action by the Fed has PREVENTED a serious downturn of our current economy.


Show me an economist that DOESN'T believe the gold standard was responsible for engulfing the rest of the developed world in the depression after America fell inn and I'll show you an economist who was on the Paul campaign's payroll. All the evidence shows that the earlier a country abandoned the gold standard, the quicker it ended up recovering.

Do you know there currently isn't enough gold in the entire world to back the GDP of the U.S.?


Gold was "legal tender" under the gold standard too. If you're gonna try and use some kind of buzzword to make something sound worse than it is, at least pick the right one.


Oh god no, anything but legal immigration!!! NOW ALL THOSE ILLEGALS WILL BE ABLE TO BECOME CITIZENS AND PAY TAXES!111!1!!1!!!1


Yeah those bankers are getting so rich that they're merging to avoid bankruptcy. Also the MCA does not apply to U.S. Citizens, in addition the Supreme Court ruled last year that the president did not have the authority to detain Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri (a legal resident but not a citizen) without charge, and that decision would presumably be the precedent for determining any future cases on the matter (Legal is the lawyer though, not me).


Maybe you should learn how the Fed actually works. I'm pretty sure the only institutions they ever loan money to are private banks who are on the brink of bankruptcy, where their failure also harm the economy (for instance, if there was a huge national disaster that left half a state without homes or jobs...they'd have no way to pay back their mortgages and the banks would have nothing to repossess to make up the loss).


Don't you mean the jews' pockets? :rolleyes:


Summary: Boy, you need to get yourself some of them learnings. There's not even anything to debate, really...you're just downright wrong about almost everything.

Economists and lawyers, feel free to give me the learnings if I'm incorrect on anything...it's all to the best of my knowledge (which is not great) and that of a couple friends who are in finance.

I really don't like backing my money on absolutely fucking nothing. Jeez, at least give something, hell make it backed by aluminum. The dollar ain't worth a continental. Also, Gold and Silver should be made legal tender, stop taxing it when you use it to pay for things.

Italian Jew
03-22-2008, 08:41 PM
You can't walk around with gold in your pockets to pay for things

Captain Colon
03-22-2008, 10:48 PM
I really don't like backing my money on absolutely fucking nothing. Jeez, at least give something, hell make it backed by aluminum. The dollar ain't worth a continental. Also, Gold and Silver should be made legal tender, stop taxing it when you use it to pay for things.
Why should gold and silver be made legal tender? What ECONOMIC purpose would that serve? Metal-backed currencies are notoriously inflexible which can be good in times of mild economic change, but is a death sentence during drastic changes. Fiat currency's relative worth makes it inherently self-stabilizing in patches of economic turbulence, thanks to globalization and the huge amount of interdependence amongst trading partners.

Captain Colon
03-23-2008, 06:49 AM
Seriously, though, the only thing I can be bothered to say right now is that one cannot rely on gold forever. It will lose it's worth. Simple supply and demand rules.
Actually its worth should increase as the need for money increases with growth while the supply of gold remains the same. The only way to control it is for all the countries that use it to agree on limits for their exchange rates (otherwise what's to stop you from buying $10/oz gold in one place and selling it for $50/oz somewhere else), but when you do that the currency less able to adapt to changing market conditions where it needs to be able to change in value that much to minimize negative impact.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works anyway; like I said, I'm no economist.

Hunt3r.j2
03-23-2008, 11:09 AM
Actually its worth should increase as the need for money increases with growth while the supply of gold remains the same. The only way to control it is for all the countries that use it to agree on limits for their exchange rates (otherwise what's to stop you from buying $10/oz gold in one place and selling it for $50/oz somewhere else), but when you do that the currency less able to adapt to changing market conditions where it needs to be able to change in value that much to minimize negative impact.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works anyway; like I said, I'm no economist.

I'd want to have at least a choice between fiat and gold/silver backed money. That way I can cash in my money for something that doesn't lose value and something that might.

phatman76
03-23-2008, 03:10 PM
Here is the Austrian economist perspective (a school of economic thought very widely respected and quite conservative). Have a gold standard, the government can't be trusted with the keys to the inflation-mobile. Second, let banks make currency again. A competitive currency market will result in a range of secure to less secure denominations. No reason to trust in God when you can trust in J.P. Morgan. Ultimately, the FED tries to do poorly what banks do naturally, create a stable economy and make a lot of money.

I agree with most of that statement, I especially don't like unbacked currency. Are we ready to go back to bank notes? Maybe not all at once, but we could do it. The gold standard was eliminated to help struggling farmers, we now live in an age where farming is less risky and where a gold standard could easily regulated. All Hail The Almighty Ingot.

Hodges
03-23-2008, 03:38 PM
2. The Federal Reserve actually CAUSED the Great Depression, by first spreading rumors about banks failing outside of the Fed Reserve, causing huge withdrawals, and after that, they decided to shrink the money supply.

They never spread rumors. The banks failing actually were failing because everyone was cashing in because of the stock market plummeting.


3. Once they did that, they went ahead and decided that the gold standard was too dangerous to the Federal Reserve's Interest, and the Federal Reserve is just about as Federal as FedEx.

It's no more secure than what we have now.


4. So the Federal Reserve's bankers decided to push a law, making it ILLEGAL to own gold as a currency, and this pushed us off the gold standard, where the dollar was redeemable in GOLD. Now, our money is "legal tender" which means it's fiat money, and is backed by thin air.

Think about it. Why is something worth anything? Why is a dollar bill worth a dollar? Because other people are able to use that same dollar bill to get other goods. Now, why is gold worth anything? Because other people are able to use that gold to get other goods. Is gold backed by anything more than thin air and hope that it retains value?


6. The government is now not only declaring illegal wars, which keep going perpetually, making the bankers richer, they have declared another war against us. Habeas Corpus is now no longer available if we are to be detained, lawyers cannot represent us if detained, they can outright spy on our lives, and also now the US gov. no longer needs a warrant to search your house or destroy you house.

Illegal wars? No. We have not participated in illegal wars. We are currently in an unjust war, judging by the standards set up defining what is a just war and what isn't.
You sound like you've been listening to Fox News.


7. War, war is great for bankers, since the defense contractors need to make money to stay up and running, so where is the money coming from? The Federal Reserve, who loans money to the government at INTEREST. This means that the bankers will constantly EARN money.

And that's business, but where's your point?


8. The Federal Income Tax is not consitutional, nor is it even stated as a law. And the money you pay doesn't even go back into government programs OR salaries, instead, it goes straight into the Federal Reserve's pockets.

When you say "the Federal Reserve's pockets," who exactly are you talking about? You are throwing that name around like it's some great entity which seems to embody every unjust corporation or action.
The Federal Income Tax is not unconstitutional. The Sixteenth Amendment allows the Congress to levy an income tax without regard to the States or the Census. It may not be considerate, but it's not unconstitutional.
The Income tax is put in place to attempt to ensure that we do not go into another depression. The money does not disappear into "the Fed. Reserve's Pockets," but is kept to be dealt out to certain companies and banks when they need it, to keep those companies and banks running. The economy relies so heavily upon them that it's necessary to keep them up, or else people will panic and begin the same cycle as in the 1920-30's.


I'll be honest here and just say that it seems like you just got through the Great Depression portion of a US History class, and your teacher was a biased fool (or you misinterpreted everything and trusted what you read online).

Italian Jew
03-23-2008, 03:40 PM
to Hunt3r.j2 and anyone who supports him...

http://kevinchiu.org/emote/facepalm.jpg

Hodges
03-23-2008, 03:44 PM
"When words fail me because I don't know what I'm talking about, I'll throw this image out there."

Italian Jew
03-23-2008, 03:46 PM
Oh noes...YOU FOUND MY PLAN!!!! :P

LegalSmash
03-24-2008, 10:42 AM
Okay, let me say this, I don’t mean to offend you personally. I am not going to pull any punches however, because this set of ideas is what I would expect out of some conspiracy theorist meth head in a Pulaski, Tennessee trailer park, talking to God on a two way radio.

I am going to partially join Colon here on quite a few points, as he is right on a few of these
I am going to address some issues as best I can, but I am busy of late, so I will respond as soon as I can.

Hunt3r.j2 says: 1. The Federal Reserve has failed; central banking time and time again has failed.

OK Fed Reserve 101 for you.
Actually no the federal reserve hasn’t “Failed us”, but hey, judging by the rest of this interesting post, I think I will be saying this quite a lot on this post. The FR isn’t evil, it doesn’t eat children, and it has not failed. It has had ups, downs, but in the end done exactly what it was supposed to:
Provide for the establish of FEDERAL RESERVE BANKS, to furnish ELASTIC currency (this means can go up and down), to afford means of discounting and rediscounting commercial paper (a “mishmash” as you would put it), of things that allow the country to work by easing transactions through streamlining the process, and to supervise banking in the US.
It is used to manage the money supply through changes in money policy. Money policy effects a LOT of other things, including employment/unemployment, pricing, and interest rates (the things being tinkered with now)
The FR also exists to prevent bank panics, usually caused by groups of individuals best served by keeping their money in a mattress under the couch. The Fed Reserve essentially serves as an arbiter to WATCH the economy, and the banking system, and if necessary adjust variables that have direct effect on the US Economy. It also acts as a LAST RESORT LENDER…

The goals of the FR are lovely to read, and are deceptively simple to comply with… its not though, and here is why
• Maximum employment: between education, the needs of the economy and meddling by people, unions, and extraneous events, this one is hard to maintain.
• stable prices: there are a great deal of variables that effect prices, from supreme court decisions (LEEGIN: the de-criminalization of minimum resale price maintenance) to the price of crude oil (internal and external)
• Moderate long-term interest rates: the most controllable for the fed.
• Promotion of sustainable economic growth: The hardest to define. In some years, a snails pace may seem breakneck. For the past 7 years, the dangerous fast speed we were going seemed frozen slow.
This is not an easy task, and it isn’t done by some magic formula. The reality is, under our economic scheme, the actions of the FED generally HAVE to be reactionary… this is the rub of capitalism… people want to “do shit” with their money… and if you start tinkering prior to action, it’s considered “Central planning” and you get lambasted as being a socialist or worst.

Think of it this way:
People WANTED to buy Houses they should have never had. People wanted cheap credit and got it from small banks that failed to report transactions and based the loan officer salary on “approve rate” rather than salary… basically incentivizing giving out bad loans… this happened in the 1920s and it happened throughout 2002-2008, the difference is we caught it prior to the economy tail spinning. The American dream is just that, a DREAM… and it’s relative to your own situation and potential. The 1920s and the 2000s thus far have shared a fair bit in common: obscenely unruly and irresponsible loan application and approval policies that lead to an incredible number of defaults.

Again, the FED, unlike chuck Norris is not all knowing, and banks, both FDIC insured, and private mom and pop crap-shacks can and do at times make bad loans. They write these off after some years as “bad debt” and normally walk away… BUT when 60% of your latest acquired, “blue chip” (some places actually called customers with Questionable credit scores blue chip) adjustable rate, ballooning interest rate customers bail, foreclose, or otherwise Welch on their bets… you fall on your ass.

These are not the FED… this is a combination of shitty loan officers, shitty mortgage loan/title companies that were not adequately regulated, and shitty, delusional customers that wouldn’t knew frugality if it sucked them off and they woke with bite marks all over their respective ghoulies the next day.

In short, blaming the Fed for doing exactly what it does is like blaming God because you caught Aids from fucking a cheap tramp in Africa because you couldn’t afford any better.
The current state of affairs is nowhere near as bad as it could be, and there is a great deal of silver on the horizon: banks are tightening policy, no more zero down… now you need de minimis 10% with virgin Mary style credit (I’m implying hers is high), mortgage companies have fallen or there has been massive house cleaning. Progress is being made... Partially at the behest of the FED, which are forcing a LOT of these industries to smarten and harden the fuck up.
You should seriously look at the facts prior to bukakking stupidity all over the forum.

Hunt3r.j2 says 2. The Federal Reserve actually CAUSED the Great Depression, by first spreading rumors about banks failing outside of the Fed Reserve, causing huge withdrawals, and after that, they decided to shrink the money supply.

No. Actually while they can be credited with shrinking the money supply as a reaction to the sudden drop in the depression; they were not the proverbial boogie man that some folks out there say they are. Saying that the FR caused the great depression is synonymous with saying that the surgeon that tried to take the bullet out of your chest after you were shot by a bank robber was your proximate cause of death. This doesn’t work like this. The economy was already fucked by the time that the fed started to shrink the supply. Although reality, common sense, and bothering to read history doesn’t seem to be your forte (actually pronounced fort, rather than fort-ey). The Fed did the most reasonable thing to do in a very difficult clutch play and it didn’t pay off. It’s like manning throwing a Hail Mary pass and the ball getting run up the colt’s asses.

Huge withdrawals happened because the banks had no deposit insurance at the time, when people saw the banks were making investments and loans on the accountholder’s equity and funds without permission from the accountholders (this is called laundering now), people heard about friends losing their money in these schemes and word spread person to person, a mass pull out occurred. The FED wasn’t waltzing around screaming “theyz gonn’ gitcha” or writing “psst, banks outside our reserve failing… psst… pass it on” or writing it in the ladies room stalls… Once again, check your friendly Westlaw database and you shall be enlightened.
As for starting rumors, ill put this statement into the same pile of ideas as chupacabras, the Easter bunny, and the tooth fairy.


Hunt3r.j2 says 3. Once they did that, they went ahead and decided that the gold standard was too dangerous to the Federal Reserve's Interest, and the Federal Reserve is just about as Federal as FedEx.
Wait, what? LOL. Okay… let me know when they are passing out the punch there buddy... I wont be drinking any of it. Nice quip there… fed and fed ex… you should be a rapper with that sort of wit.
FYI
Fed Reserve is created by the Federal Reserve Act created by congress…. ch. 6, 38 Stat. 251, enacted December 23, 1913, 12 U.S.C. ch.3 … this makes it “federal” and slightly more so than FedEx…


Hunt3r.j2 says 4. So the Federal Reserve's bankers decided to push a law, making it ILLEGAL to own gold as a currency, and this pushed us off the gold standard, where the dollar was redeemable in GOLD. Now, our money is "legal tender" which means its fiat money, and is backed by thin air.
LOL.
There isn’t enough gold in existence to cover the redeemable value of the US GDP (To quote colon here). Further, even if we were to melt EVERY SINGLE earring, piece of jewelry, golden calf, dildo, etc. on earth and in existence you STILL would not have enough to do the aforementioned… What about the rest of the countries, for that matter?

Fiat money is backed by the government’s credibility and its ability to pay… which it does (Especially the US), and has, since nearly the beginning. It may not have the same return as a private investment, but it has stability… which is the benefit of fiat monetary policy as opposed to gold standard. Gold can fluctuate rapidly, booms and busts in gold would KILL consumer confidence in this country where money is meant to be reliable and liquid for the average American (cash in pocket at disposal for hoagies), the volatility of the Gold standard, and its repeated performances throughout history that have established that volatile nature of the currency made it a pretty much consensual decision to change to it.
Allegedly gold standard limits the govts ability to inflate through excessive money printing and permitting for stability in exchange rate.

Hunt3r.j2 says 5. The African, North American, European, and Asian Union is not only outright stupid, it's very very VERY special interests based. In particular, the Constitution of the United States would be considered obsolete in the North American Union, making illegal immigration legal.

QUE? The NAU is going to work? I honestly think that if you believe this tripe, you need to drop out of political participation. Wtf.
BTW, for everyone here: Illegal immigrants pay taxes at the highest marginal rate for the amount they are supposed to be paid, either themselves or through their employers via proxy:
A quick breakdown:
Pancho gets a job, but his state doesn’t require him to disclose citizen status due to some sort of pro-immigrant law. He refuses to file a w2 with information. Employer (bob for this example) puts in the W2 that he must fill out for payroll taxes and SSA/Medicare. Because Pancho does not want to fill out info, he is withheld at FULL rate according to the amount of his gross pay. Here is the catch, because pancho likely won’t file a return, he will get NOTHING back. It’s pretty much a donation, if you will to the US govt.

I don’t like illegal immigration because I am the son of immigrants that got here legally and worked their asses off to succeed. I’m not going make a paper boogie man out of the issue and blame everything for it either.
If you wish illegal immigrants to go away completely, you should probably go apply for some of the jobs they are doing rather than blurting incomprehensibly ignorant shit all over the forums, and have some of ye-buddies do the same.
We have a saying when someone is just talking and nothing of relevance is coming out:

“tienes un mojon en la cabeza, y lo que te salio de la boca fue un buche de mierda”
I think this pretty much sums your points up.

Hunt3r.j2 says. The government is now not only declaring illegal wars, which keep going perpetually, making the bankers richer, they have declared another war against us. Habeas Corpus is now no longer available if we are to be detained, lawyers cannot represent us if detained, they can outright spy on our lives, and also now the US gov. no longer needs a warrant to search your house or destroy you house.

LMFAO OMG. This is not even worth addressing. You basically took some legal buzzwords and threw them out. 1. The “wars” are legal, under various resolutions and the war powers acts; please write your congressman if this bothers you. I really don’t feel like repeating everything I’ve said about this in the past, so just search my name on this forum, go read the Ron Paul threads and you’ll see why you are wrong and your arguments are futile.
When exactly was the 4th amend suspended for citizens? Did I miss a memo? I am fairly certain that it’s quite alive and well, the government or a state agent cannot unconstitutionally violate the prohibition against searches. They DO need a warrant for doing just about anything, and you can sue them under Civ. Rights violations under the 1983 act and the federal torts claims act for a LOT of money for deviating even slightly from the standard.
As for habeas, the Title 1 Reforms to Habeas Corpus, the most significant portion of the “Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act”, 28 USCA 2244 (a) (b), requires dismissal of a claim presented in a state prisoners SECOND OR SUCCESSIVE application for habeas corpus under 2254 that was presented in a prior app…

In English: Your repeated, pointless appeals that have been denied again and again can be denied at face value if the issue has been previously dealt with (AKA: speed the process the fuck up, because it costs Americans a LOT of money to fight those appeals for 20 years before they off someone.) The standard was not removed, but simply made more tightened: instead of “give me habeas proceeding bc I say so, its ‘you must substantially show the denial of a constitutional right” to obtain a cert. of appealability from a final order in a habeas proceeding. Terror suspects AND prisoners have to deal with this POST PASSAGE of the statute. EVERYONE PRIOR TO THIS IS GRANDFATHERED IN TO THE OLD SCHEME.
Please go read FOIA, PATRIOT, and the wiretap act closely,
I will address this further at a later date, but:
For the now, know this: enemy combatants aren’t US citizens, - no right to counsel, no right to trial, no right to appeal outside of what is allowed by whatever tribunal your ass is being dealt with by…. same applies to non-us citizens. Be more specific as to who you are referring to… because you are just screaming more worthless crap from the pyres of the Ron Paul palace.
It appears that some new cases MAY cause this age old standard to sway, its heavily dependant on the high court’s upcoming decisions on the issue, considering the past decisions however, barring some of the current administration’s procedure fumbles (that’s just what they were…, get pissed at me if you like), the standard is unlikely to change.
Lincoln ACTUALLY suspended Habeas. It as declared unconst., no one has tried doing it since. It CAN and SHOULD be tailored to be less than wasteful with imbeciles that KNOW they can appeal their way into old age, despite being on death row.
Ill deal with this issue more thoroughly soon.

Hunt3r.j2 says 7. War, war is great for bankers, since the defense contractors need to make money to stay up and running, so where is the money coming from? The Federal Reserve, who loans money to the government at INTEREST. This means that the bankers will constantly EARN money.

Um… what??! Go see government contracts regulations... called the Federal Acquisition Regulations… see the requirements for PARTICIPATING, and rethink your statement. Govt doesn’t “pay in advance” , but rather in increments, or after the job is done. The “government money” comes from the dispersed funds made available in November, (a day later from when the budget is due), which comes from the ways and means committee, according to the very strict standards set for government contracting and acquisition. It is a HUGE pain in the ass process and most banks refuse to deal with the aggravation. Further, barring shipbuilding, the government pays lowest dollar possible.
The Govt actually lends, insures, and backs BANKS money quite often, or BANKS buy up commercial paper that is later exchanged for value (like Tbills and bonds, which are the only ways I can conceive your idea here… and then its wrong anyway because there is still recourse and consideration for the exchange). How the hell is that difference from your grandma buying a bunch of T-bills and leaving them to you on a 20 year maturation rate? It really isn’t.
Hunt3r.j2 says 8. The Federal Income Tax is not constitutional, nor is it even stated as a law. And the money you pay doesn't even go back into government programs OR salaries, instead, it goes straight into the Federal Reserve's pockets.

No, you are wrong and for that matter ignoring nearly a century of law and previous century’s of the same.
16th Amend, US Const makes Fed income tax legal, and 95 years of court cases, 4 internal rev codes later have attested to its constitutionality.
You are quoting tax protestor arguments, none of which hold up validly in Court, none of which have ever succeeded in defeating the Federal Income Tax… Here is a list of TP args that you can use on your anti-tax crusade… Spartacus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_protester_arguments
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/readingroom/2001ctm/40ctax.htm
As a matter of fact, the ONLY time any one has EVER succeeded in AVOIDING Criminal Sanction for evading taxes was Cheek v. US, and it was because the court determined the guy was SUCH A FUCKING RETARD that he REALLY OBJECTIVELY and SUBJECTIVELY was determined to have been led to believe that his “wages” were not income. Despite section 62 of the IRC (everything is income). This case was a fluke, and the guy ended up paying his taxes ANYWAY.
The reality is that it is legal, constitutional, and is one of the lowest rates the system has ever been, and one of the most moderate tax systems in the world. I’ll address this more thoroughly when I get some work done.
Know this though, avoid taxes if you want, but the IRS’s status as a “super creditor” will ensure that they will be THE FIRST creditor to nail your ass to a wall, plus penalties, plus interest. So go ahead and use some of the args I gave you with your return when you send it (because you will, especially if you have to already) and see if they don’t send you a nice letter telling you about penalties you owe for frivolous args…

I’ll be back for more here.

Italian Jew
03-24-2008, 10:53 AM
^^^^

lol, seriously, can you be my lawyer or something if I get in trouble?

A picture is worth a thousand words...and Legal turned FACEPALM into a little over 3,000 of them...

But yeah, its what we got and it isn't going anywhere...

LegalSmash
03-24-2008, 10:58 AM
I wrote that over 3 days, on word before I posted... note the semi correct MS2007 spellcheck

Slavic
03-24-2008, 04:10 PM
BRING BACK THE BARTER SYSTEM!!!
http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/01401/ThinkQuestFiles/barter.gif


O yea, thanks legal for that post. Since before you started making your economics postings i've only had a general understanding of the fluxuality(word??) of economies.

Edit: Flexibility, lol fluxuality wtf was i smoking

Italian Jew
03-24-2008, 04:15 PM
Fluxuality sounds cooler...but we all have to abide by the rules of grammar

Unless you are a grammar anarchist... >_> <_<

LegalSmash
03-24-2008, 04:52 PM
lol at grammer nazi and anarchist. What would the grammer SS look like?

Captain Colon
03-24-2008, 05:40 PM
lots of stuff
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/mrfiend497/sciencedrop.jpg


lol at grammer nazi and anarchist. What would the grammer SS look like?
Not you LOL@!!1!1!!


Gold can fluctuate rapidly, booms and busts in gold would KILL consumer confidence in this country where money is meant to be reliable and liquid for the average American (cash in pocket at disposal for hoagies), the volatility of the Gold standard, and its repeated performances throughout history that have established that volatile nature of the currency made it a pretty much consensual decision to change to it.
Isn't gold up like $200 from where it was a year or two ago, if even that long? Yahoo finance only has a chart for the past 5 days but it's gone from $930 to almost $1000 then back down to $915 in that time, I'm pretty sure the last time I read about it in an article in Forbes about gas prices (comparing the price of oil in US dollars to the price of oil in gold...pretty interesting article actually) it was around $750. Makes me wish I'd invested in some gold when I still had money...that 20+&#37; return doesn't sound too bad at all. Maybe its rise in value (vs USD) of late is what's got everyone thinking bringing the standard back would be a good idea or something.

LegalSmash
03-25-2008, 09:46 AM
Quote:
lol at grammer nazi and anarchist. What would the grammer SS look like?
Not you LOL@!!1!1!!

GRAMMAR!!!

LegalSmash
03-30-2008, 03:09 PM
Did the guy who started this thread ever respond to it again, or did he just start it and not say anything else?

Captain Colon
03-30-2008, 03:41 PM
I think he printed out your post and has been mulling over it in a park for days.