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Slavic
02-19-2008, 10:06 PM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/18/world/18kosovo2-600.jpg

Kosovo Is Recognized but Rebuked by Others (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/world/europe/19kosovo.html?ex=1219035600&en=3aad0c422b4b6427&ei=5087&excamp=GGGNkosovo&WT.srch=1&WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_id=GN-S-E-GG-NA-S-kosovo)

I'm surprised none of the Euro Crackers posted this. Do I smell another Balkan War???

Jack_Sparow
02-19-2008, 10:28 PM
Dear god please no lol...... seems all to close to many "Current Battle" Games lol

Edo
02-19-2008, 10:42 PM
Dear god please no lol...... seems all to close to many "Current Battle" Games lol

# Insurgency Beta 3 will be be powered by the Orange Box Engine by Valve. As long as your SDK Base is updated, you will NOT need to buy the Orange Box.
# It will feature a new theatre of war: Kosovo.
# The sides fighting for Kosovo will be the British Army and a fictional paramilitary group, the Serbian Liberation Army.



Balkan=gunpowder barrel you dont need to much to start war in there :)

LegalSmash
02-19-2008, 10:45 PM
I support their independence... lol.

Edo
02-19-2008, 10:47 PM
I support their independence... lol.

you do but ask Serbians if they do:))

Slavic
02-19-2008, 11:06 PM
Ethnic Serbs in the country are already protesting heavily, and Serbia has already said that it will never recognize Kosovo, not to mention Russia and a few other around the world won't as well.

Honestly its just a matter of time before Albanian and Serbian militias start killing each other. Its only been about 10 years since the Kosovo war, and about 15 years since the Second Balkan war.

Jaffa
02-20-2008, 03:51 AM
The Kosovan war was started when NATO commenced a bombing canpaign against Serbia to pressure it into accepting resolution 1199, which basically dealt with the safety of the Albanian's there.
Since then Kosovo has been under a UN mandate, and this independance was always likely to happen, especially after the split up of serbia and montenagro.

Most NATO members will support the independance, whilst Russia opposes it because it origionally opposed military action on Serbia in 1999. Spain and other nations only oppose the independance because of their own seperatist groups.

Obviously the serb minority are unhappy, but they probably won't resort to violence because of the large NATO/UN prescence there.

MANFRA
02-20-2008, 10:54 AM
I support their independence... lol.

As do I. Very corrupt region which is always being threatened and influenced by Russia. On the other side here the United States influences the other side to break away. Russia and the US are both wrong to be getting involved in the middle of these INTERNAL affairs.

Jaffa
02-20-2008, 11:38 AM
Russia has very little influence within former Yugoslavia, unlike other eastern european nations.

By the way, it wasn't the US which got involved in Kosovo, it was NATO :P

Slavic
02-20-2008, 12:28 PM
Obviously the serb minority are unhappy, but they probably won't resort to violence because of the large NATO/UN prescence there.

Not true, I have a cousin who served a part of his tour with the US Marine Core in Kosovo. This was a few years ago, and even then they saw a lot of violence. Do you think that the large US presence in Iraq is stopping violence??? There will certainly be violence in the region because of this.

MANFRA
02-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Russia has very little influence within former Yugoslavia, unlike other eastern european nations.

By the way, it wasn't the US which got involved in Kosovo, it was NATO :P


lol NATO is the US..

MANFRA
02-20-2008, 12:42 PM
Russia does have an involement and influence in all the countries in that region. They're just a tab bit stealthier then the United States.. a tactic which is smarter.

mew
02-20-2008, 01:16 PM
Russia is afraid Chechnya would do the same but meanwhile, they are funding Abkhazia and South Ossetia to be Republics in Georgia.

Jaffa
02-21-2008, 05:57 AM
NATO action in Kosovo was techinacally illegal, as they did not posses a UN resolution enabling them to use military force.

But, the current international laws reguarding humanitarian intervention are not sufficently developed to cover all such incidences, such as whether it is right to violate another state's sovereignty to take control of massive violations of human rights within a region.

VirDeBello
02-21-2008, 04:56 PM
lol US makes up the bulk of NATO. And why doesn't England git invovle in it? They are part of Europe and it would be a good thing to keep peace in Europe even though I just contradicted myself a bit right there. I really don't know all that much of what is happening there. Just the basics of it.....someone wanna give a bio on it?

Jaffa
02-21-2008, 05:31 PM
Read up on wikipedia, it gives a good basic overview

How exactly do you want England to get involved? We have already recognised the Kosovan Declaration of Independance

Slavic
02-21-2008, 07:04 PM
No more involvement from NATO or any other power will happen unless the Serb and Albanian start to escalate their militia attacks. It hasn't been peaceful in Kosovo since the last war, such as the incident in 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_unrest_in_Kosovo) when major rioting, looting, and arson occurred. The Serbs and the Albanians will do anything to get at each other's throats.

VirDeBello
02-21-2008, 08:19 PM
Well thats how I meant for it say. If war breaks out or such I think we (NATO and European powers) should try to stop such a thing right?

Jaffa
02-21-2008, 08:51 PM
NATO is too involved currently to be able not to do anything. Its unlikely a full sclae conflict will break out, but you may have a situation similar to those in other seperatist states, with 'terrorist' attacks, and general dissension

Slavic
02-21-2008, 09:38 PM
NATO is too involved currently to be able not to do anything. Its unlikely a full sclae conflict will break out, but you may have a situation similar to those in other seperatist states, with 'terrorist' attacks, and general dissension

That is true, I don't think there will be actual declarations of war. Such a thing would mean international disaster for which ever said does so. But there will definably be internal racial fighting as there always is.

MANFRA
02-21-2008, 11:30 PM
It was founded April 4th, by Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, United Kingdom and United States.

After that a further 14 countries joined the treaty -- so no, NATO isn't US, it's a large alliance brought from the Treaty of Brussels. (Similar to the Warsaw Pact, Triple Entente, etc.)

P.S.

On 24 March 1999, NATO saw its first broad-scale military engagement in the Kosovo War, where it waged an 11-week bombing campaign against what was then the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. A formal declaration of war never took place. Yugoslavia referred to the Kosovo War as military aggression, as being undeclared and contravening the UN Charter. The conflict ended on 11 June 1999, when Yugoslavian leader Slobodan Milošević agreed to NATO’s demands by accepting UN resolution 1244. NATO then helped establish the KFOR, a NATO-led force under a United Nations mandate that operated the military mission in Kosovo. After the 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence the commander of NATO forces in Kosovo said February 20, 2008 he does not plan to step up security in the tense north despite violent attacks by Kosovo Serb which forced the temporary closure of two boundary crossings between Kosovo and Serbia. No added NATO security in Kosovo.

(Courtesy of Wikipedia).

P.P.S. Was digging around on the internet and found this: http://img.userbarz.com/121/24079.png (http://userbarz.com/)


I didn't need a short summary history lesson on what some website says is NATO. I know far more history about NATO then wikipedia. And I will say again, the United States IS NATO. Just because other countries signed on to be apart of NATO doesn't mean it's split between all the countries. The United States gives the most funding to NATO and was created because of the warsaw pact. If the United States lost Europe to the USSR, the US would have been good as gone. So again i'll state it in a more clear way, the United States controls NATO.

Jaffa
02-22-2008, 04:38 AM
Control of NATO is primarily by the US, but don't discount the fact that both France and Britain both have vetos for the United Nations Security Council

Edo
02-22-2008, 08:00 AM
I didn't need a short summary history lesson on what some website says is NATO. I know far more history about NATO then wikipedia. And I will say again, the United States IS NATO. Just because other countries signed on to be apart of NATO doesn't mean it's split between all the countries. The United States gives the most funding to NATO and was created because of the warsaw pact. If the United States lost Europe to the USSR, the US would have been good as gone. So again i'll state it in a more clear way, the United States controls NATO.

QFT NATO=USA

i was myself in that region when war started.USA was the first country who got involved in.....i dont get it why should usa come from oversea just to tell who is wrong and bring justice.....but but WAR=PROFIT

Jaffa
02-22-2008, 08:18 AM
QFT NATO=USA

i was myself in that region when war started.USA was the first country who got involved in.....i dont get it why should usa come from oversea just to tell who is wrong and bring justice.....but but WAR=PROFIT

So what did the US gain from its intervention in Kosovo?

Edo
02-22-2008, 10:04 AM
ensure its access to Caspian Sea oil one of them

why did USA put military base in Turkey?

u guys need to understand something :seen war on tv and read newspaper is totally different than been in war

MANFRA
02-22-2008, 11:49 AM
So what did the US gain from its intervention in Kosovo?

also another foot closer to russia..

...and havok, the USSR took control of eastern europe during ww2.. just because the warsaw pact wasn't an official named orginization doesn't mean it wasn't there threatening western europe. russia gave the pact of countries a name to make it look like they had the choice of being apart of the USSR. NATO was created after the USSR had control of the eastern europe.

Jaffa
02-22-2008, 12:36 PM
ensure its access to Caspian Sea oil one of them

why did USA put military base in Turkey?

u guys need to understand something :seen war on tv and read newspaper is totally different than been in war

What does Kosovo have to do with caspian sea oil? Kosovo is in Eastern Europe, the Caspian sea is at the juncture of Russia and Iran :P

US bases in turkey, and the difference between watching and experiencing war are irrelavent to where Kosovo is

Manfra: i don't think that the USA and NATO intervened in Kosovo and Yugoslavia simply so they could put another base near Russia

Edo
02-22-2008, 12:47 PM
ok than we dont know u know so tell as why did usa put forces in that region,just dont tell me cuz they care about albanians:) also this is not the place but why we still have army in iraq sadam is down

Jaffa
02-22-2008, 01:23 PM
The decision to interfere in Kosovo/Yugoslavia was not a US decision but a NATO decision. After the end of the Cold War NATO needed to redefine itself to justify its continued existance. The Balkan region had been suffering nearly a decade of violence as Yugoslavia broke up into individual nations, with a lot of ethnic violence etc. Kosovo at the time was in civil war, with the Kosovan Liberation Army fighting against Yugoslav soldiers and police, and in the war signs started to appear of breaches of human rights on both sides. NATO intervened because they felt that Kosovo would turn out like Bosnia a few years before, where there had been mass genocide becuase no-one had intervened before it was too late.

The contraversy is that NATO started a bombing campaign against Yugoslavia without getting a mandate from the UN. This was because NATo knew that if they tried to pass a resolution through the Security Council enabling them to take action, and Russia and China would use their vetos to stop it (as relations between NATO and Russia/China were poor)

There isn't any real cynical reason why NATO intervened in Kosovo, which i feel you seem to be searching for Edo

MANFRA
02-23-2008, 12:26 PM
Manfra: i don't think that the USA and NATO intervened in Kosovo and Yugoslavia simply so they could put another base near Russia

The US intervened so those countries wouldn't end up being influenced by Russia.

Jaffa
02-23-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm not sure Russia was exerting its influence in 1999, its only been recently its tried to force itself back into global politics